Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

theverge.com

311–320 of 407 posts

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#311
post #299

A mobile phone is the surveillance dictators' wet dream. What are my subjects doing...tap tap tap...ah there they are. Oh him, he needs to be cancelled, he isn't where I wanted him to be.

Feersum Endjinn has this plot line. Can recommend.

Ohhh thank you :-)

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#312
post #20

The Dark Knight was released in 2008. In that movie, Batman hijacks citizens' cellphones to track down the Joker, and it's presented as a major moral and ethical dilemma as part of the movie's overall themes. The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. Crazy to think that less than two decades later, an even more powerful surveillance technolo…

This is a bit orthogonal to the article, but Christopher Nolan gives me the willies. Almost all his films have this kind authoritarian apologia in them.

Every single Hollywood movie has authoritarian apologia, you don't have to go to Christopher Nolan or Forrest Gump. The most recent example is One battle after another.

"Wait, There’s Torture in Zootopia?" DOI:10.1017/S1537592719005012

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system is nothing compared to the geolocation databases curated by Apple and Google, with GPS sensors combined with Wi-Fi wardriving, IMEI tracking, cell tower handoffs, and the rest of the insane amount of telemetry they collect collect in real time. And that’s before even considering BLE and the Find My network. Imagine the “God mode” dashboards they could have in Cupertino (or more likely, in Mountain View).

I'm sorry but I just don't think that's the threat at all. I think these companies actually realize the existential risk and harm this data has, and do a lot to anonymize it quickly & effectively. If the government was actively backdooring Apple or Google to get realtime data like this, it would be found, and it would be a shitstorm that would greatly impact these companies. We really need to get a little more discer…

Amazon?

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system is nothing compared to the geolocation databases curated by Apple and Google, with GPS sensors combined with Wi-Fi wardriving, IMEI tracking, cell tower handoffs, and the rest of the insane amount of telemetry they collect collect in real time. And that’s before even considering BLE and the Find My network. Imagine the “God mode” dashboards they could have in Cupertino (or more likely, in Mountain View).

I'm sorry but I just don't think that's the threat at all. I think these companies actually realize the existential risk and harm this data has, and do a lot to anonymize it quickly & effectively. If the government was actively backdooring Apple or Google to get realtime data like this, it would be found, and it would be a shitstorm that would greatly impact these companies. We really need to get a little more discer…

The past gives a lot of lessons, all negative ones. Power people are endlessly greedy for more power, there is no end in that spiral. All top folks are like that, if you look for the signs you can see it in their behaviors outside PR rooms. Sociopaths to the last one, all big names and then some more.

So, when in doubt, feel free to have good faith in these behemoths. I don't. Secret court orders for example can force any company into anything, and it can be pro bono for some gov contract later. Why would they disclose this, ever? We had Snowden and others.

Come on lets be realistic here, all that data is a wet dream and ultimate goal of any 3 letter agency all around the world.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has always been the question. Are you willing to be constantly surveilled for marginally more security?

If it leads to a high-trust society, yes. (e.g., see Singapore)

I don't think you understand what "high trust" means. High trust societies have no need for surveillance which is what makes them high trust.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system is nothing compared to the geolocation databases curated by Apple and Google, with GPS sensors combined with Wi-Fi wardriving, IMEI tracking, cell tower handoffs, and the rest of the insane amount of telemetry they collect collect in real time. And that’s before even considering BLE and the Find My network. Imagine the “God mode” dashboards they could have in Cupertino (or more likely, in Mountain View).

Imagine a Google Maps / Google Earth where you can see everyone’s location and identity in real time, with tagging/targeting/following capabilities and quick links to thorough personal profiles.

And see everyone they interacted with in the last 24 hours

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#317
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live somewhere with high crime? The reason deliveries work this way in the US is that porch pirates are uncommon. There is a flurry of them during the holidays, but even then, the vast majority of deliveries are just fine. > What are you going to do with that information? Nothing, because by the time I look at my doorbell camera I would already have told the shipper the package was swiped and they will have sh…

No, they live somewhere with a working postal law like Germany. Hand it directly to the addressed or a person authorised by the addressed (in which case inform the recipient via card or sms) or deposit it in a postbox, post office. This way it is secure that you receive your stuff even if you are not at home: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Fachthemen/Post/Regelung...

You leave out that they can keep it in a warehouse at the other side of the country for pickup and there is no law saying that it cannot be further away than the point of origin. Fun times.

Sadly I rarely see an option for "place it with a neon sign on my front porch" when I order things online, because the chance of having things stolen would often be preferable to a daytrip to the middle of nowhere.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#318

Did anyone catch the recent development in the Nancy Guthrie kidnapping story? For days it was explained that, while she had a Nest doorbell camera (which was stolen by the kidnapper) it was sadly useless because Nancy wasn’t paying for cloud storage. Just live video and notifications. Well what do know happened today? The video of the kidnapper was magically produced by Google. I guess, even when you don’t pay for s…

Turns out you're not buying the storage and compute required to store your video. Google can afford that regardless of whether you pay.

They're licensing your own video back to you.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#319
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live somewhere with high crime? The reason deliveries work this way in the US is that porch pirates are uncommon. There is a flurry of them during the holidays, but even then, the vast majority of deliveries are just fine. > What are you going to do with that information? Nothing, because by the time I look at my doorbell camera I would already have told the shipper the package was swiped and they will have sh…

No, they live somewhere with a working postal law like Germany. Hand it directly to the addressed or a person authorised by the addressed (in which case inform the recipient via card or sms) or deposit it in a postbox, post office. This way it is secure that you receive your stuff even if you are not at home: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Fachthemen/Post/Regelung...

>No, they live somewhere with a working postal law like Germany. Hand it directly to the addressed or a person authorised by the addressed (in which case inform the recipient via card or sms) or deposit it in a postbox, post office. This way it is secure that you receive your stuff even if you are not at home: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Fachthemen/Post/Regelung...

Sure. And that's great. But we're not talking about Deutsche Post, or even the US Postal Service.

We're talking about Amazon Logistics subcontractors who are so over-scheduled that they routinely need to urinate in bottles[0] rather than stop to use a restroom or they won't be able to fulfill their delivery quota for the day.

Those folks are assuredly not going to do anything more than the bare minimum (and not necessarily because they don't want to) because their delivery quotas don't allow for anything more than dumping a package on a porch (or in an unattended apartment building lobby) and maybe ringing the doorbell/intercom.

[0] https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/amazon-depot-s-huge-pi...

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a Google Maps / Google Earth where you can see everyone’s location and identity in real time, with tagging/targeting/following capabilities and quick links to thorough personal profiles.

And see everyone they interacted with in the last 24 hours

Not only that: also nth-order interactions (Alice—Bob, Bob—Charlie, Charlie—Deborah, …), connectivity clustering, time spent in same location heatmaps, etc.
Post reply on HN