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ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#311

Post by somenameforme »

saubeidl wrote: post #306
somenameforme wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazis were engaging in systematic and large scale genocide. ICE is deporting people in the country illegally back to their home countries, free of charge. I'm not being snarky there either, immigration offenses are taken seriously worldwide and in many places you can end up in indefinite detention, required to pay for your own deportation + fines, and more. The 'penalty' being a free ticket home is a pretty sweet…

The Nazis started with a deportation plan [0] and building camps as well. It never starts with genocide, you slowly work up to it. The "final solution" happened once they realized the impracticablity of mass deportations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The Madagascar plan was Germany scheming to to remove all Jews from Europe and their occupied territories. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a country removing illegal immigrants from its territory as happens every day, world round. The only thing that makes it notable was previous administrations intentionally enabling and encouraging illegal activity which turned a small problem into a big one.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#312

Post by uwagar »

sham1 wrote: post #162
uwagar wrote: post #52

[flagged]

But why though? Why shouldn't they be restricted to only using the tools they're legally entitled to? And why shouldn't they be held in account when they act like the SA just because they're "enforcing immigration law"?

i suppose with this idea, they only homin in on illegals that use smartphones who willingly offer their realtime location to their app providers and is already sold, ICE could just buy it off them like others. they doin nothing illegal while illegals are illegally in the country bro.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#313

Post by donkeybeer »

somenameforme wrote: post #311
saubeidl wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazis started with a deportation plan [0] and building camps as well. It never starts with genocide, you slowly work up to it. The "final solution" happened once they realized the impracticablity of mass deportations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The Madagascar plan was Germany scheming to to remove all Jews from Europe and their occupied territories. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a country removing illegal immigrants from its territory as happens every day, world round. The only thing that makes it notable was previous administrations intentionally enabling and encouraging illegal activity which turned a small problem into a big one.

What "illegal activity" were previous admins "intentionally" "enabling"? Be specific. Cite specific facts and cases. And give comparison of rates of "illegalities" against the current admin.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#314

Post by saubeidl »

somenameforme wrote: post #311
saubeidl wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazis started with a deportation plan [0] and building camps as well. It never starts with genocide, you slowly work up to it. The "final solution" happened once they realized the impracticablity of mass deportations. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The Madagascar plan was Germany scheming to to remove all Jews from Europe and their occupied territories. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a country removing illegal immigrants from its territory as happens every day, world round. The only thing that makes it notable was previous administrations intentionally enabling and encouraging illegal activity which turned a small problem into a big one.

It is the exact same thing, with a different outgroup.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#315

Post by mindslight »

nullocator wrote: post #267
account42 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the officers involved had could reasonably believe that they posed an immediate lethal threat at the time, yes it does. Whether or not that was the case is for courts to figure out after things calm down and all facts have been gathered and not a valid reason to call for the shut down of entire agencies with the intent of stopping enforcement of laws you don't like.

Is the immediate lethal threat in the room with us right now? I hope no one ever accidentally believes you're an immediate lethal threat simply for existing, or at least if they do, maybe you'll be lucky enough to not have yuppies on the internet trying to defend your murder. Can the officers in any of these incidents even articulate a threat, and how the only remedy was to shoot through the driver side window, or in…

The presence of actual patriotic Americans who believe in individual liberty and limited government is an "imminent threat" to the agents' fantasy narrative where they're heroes doing good. Everything downstream of that is rationalization.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#316

Post by ianbutler »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #298
hackable_sand wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passive resistance is still resistance. It's the gateway to any sympathetic contingency.

Where’s the passive resistance? This user is still on twitter and actively promoting their handle there

"We also as individuals [without billions] have fairly limited capacity to directly act against these things. I donate a fair bit to the EFF for instance and I've sent outreach to representatives multiple times over the years for specific bills and when its possible I vote against surveillance." - from a parallel thread I was commenting in.

I'm totally fine stopping at minimizing my culpability. I sleep just fine at night and don't really jump at purity tests like you seem to want. I'm not other people's savior and I don't want to be. If you want to put your energy into that, I support you.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#317

Post by xp84 »

NoGravitas wrote: post #278
xp84 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we believe that those shootings are completely unacceptable (probably criminal), but that “have no immigration enforcement and permanently halt deportations” is also unacceptable? The latter seems to be the solution being pushed by one party. Like always, the left’s problem is that their proposed solutions read like they were written by teenagers, based on emotions and dismissive of the reasons why their supp…

People wanting to abolish ICE are not, generally, calling for doing away with immigration enforcement entirely. The main thing I've seen called for is the abolition of ICE, and the restoration of the pre-DHS Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), not under the DHS, but under the DOJ. I have also seen calls to eliminate the DHS entirely, and separate out the agencies under it to their pre-DHS organization.

Pardon my skepticism, but what difference would that make to rename or reorganize DHS into a different shape? If you want immigration enforcement to be nicer (which I think I support you on in broad strokes) the correct steps are:

1. Win elections

2. Pass laws (or win the Presidency, a cheat code that has been the main way most things get done since ... 2008 or so, and is basically effective unless the "thing" is kinda unconstitutional and SCOTUS is against you. Blame RBG btw for screwing Dems on that last part)

The reason why we won't get this outcome is that the Democrats stopped being serious about convincing the moderates to get onboard their platform, because they give too much of a platform to the people who just chant slogans like "No person is illegal!" Which, while I get the humanitarian point, reads to me like you'd really prefer that anyone caught here illegally should ethically just be let go, rendering the whole concept of borders, visa applications, green cards, all of that, a big joke on the people who follow the rules.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#318

Post by learingsci »

j-pb wrote: post #266
account42 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps "what you thought then and now" is the difference between those times more than "what happened then and now". With the former being largely influenced by "what your bubble told you then and now".

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

We don’t have good data because it’s illegal to, for example, ask citizenship status on our census, but if you believe the numbers many democrats cite, Obama deported more immigrants than Trump. You can use Google to verify that though I’ll warn you the rabbit hole runs deep when it comes to official statistics. Importantly, under Trump we have far more violent felons to deport. The media thrives on salacious and emotionally charged stories rather unbiased reporting based on nuanced facts. It’s the entertainment industry.

The recent tragedies are indeed thoroughly depressing for all of us, but we shouldn’t let our emotional reactions destroy our ability to reason and think objectively about history and statistics. We can feel and think. Some of us believe enforcement of laws is the villain in this. Some feel the laws themselves or the idea of borders and sovereignty are to blame. Others that a surge of violent criminals such as those who killed Jocylan Nungary or Laken Riley is the cause of the recent tragedies. None of these views are inherently evil. All of these views have some merit. Truth is manifold. Don’t be narrow minded, we need broad thinking not simplistic pathos driven dogmas and references to nazis. Grow up.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#319

Post by somenameforme »

saubeidl wrote: post #314
somenameforme wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Madagascar plan was Germany scheming to to remove all Jews from Europe and their occupied territories. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a country removing illegal immigrants from its territory as happens every day, world round. The only thing that makes it notable was previous administrations intentionally enabling and encouraging illegal activity which turned a small problem into a big one.

It is the exact same thing, with a different outgroup.

No it obviously is not. You do not have a right to stay in a country illegally, anywhere in this world. If you want to migrate to a country, you need that country's permission. Without it you are an illegal alien and will, at the minimum, be removed from that country as soon as you are caught. In many places in this world you then may end up in detention - potentially indefinitely, imprisoned, fined, and so on. The US system, which is mostly just giving you a 'free' ride home, funded by US taxpayers, is incredibly lenient.

There is no in group, out group, or whatever else. Go to Mexico or Canada illegally, as an American, and you're getting deported, same as everybody and everywhere else. Vice versa if a Canadian, Brit, or whoever else comes into the US illegally, they're also getting deported.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#320

Post by donkeybeer »

somenameforme wrote: post #319
saubeidl wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the exact same thing, with a different outgroup.

No it obviously is not. You do not have a right to stay in a country illegally, anywhere in this world. If you want to migrate to a country, you need that country's permission. Without it you are an illegal alien and will, at the minimum, be removed from that country as soon as you are caught. In many places in this world you then may end up in detention - potentially indefinitely, imprisoned, fined, and so on. The U…

Yes but first prove illegality. And if you believe killing any person on the streets without any suspicion or charge is legal, cite the laws for it.
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