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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

theregister.com

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#311

Post by smarx007 »

daneel_w wrote: post #277
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. Please provide a list, no sarcasm. And please don’t put Hetzner on it, as it is not a cloud provider.

> Please provide a list, no sarcasm. And please don’t put Hetzner on it, as it is not a cloud provider. In what way are they not a "cloud" provider? Because their managed services portfolio isn't as wide as AWS or Azure? What about Scaleway's services then?

Hetzner has no managed services except for the S3-compatible object storage. Scaleway is much better in that regard.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#312

Post by christophilus »

shaky-carrousel wrote: post #205
202508042147 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add lack of technical competence at C level. In my previous job, I have dealt with quite a few European CEOs whos only background was an MBA. Unlike the US where a lot of CEOs have a deep technical background...

Of course. One only has to take a look at Microsoft, Apple, or Google, to notice that they're run by CEOs with a "deep" technical background. No MBA whatsoever...

Google and (and more debatably Microsoft and Apple) were run by technical founders during the timeframe that they were achieving critical mass. The MBAs came later to run the machine and optimize the business. But, the machine was built and grown by technical leadership first.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#313

Post by bborud »

xyst wrote: post #77
atmosx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing EU cloud providers to AWS is like comparing a 1963 Zastava to 2025 high end BYD because both of them are cars and can drive from point A to point B.

AWS is overrated junk, got it.

Well, isn’t it?

It is easy to argue that it is expensive and complex. Since it is. And lots of people have made that argument. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone argue in favor of AWS while skimming the threads here.

So this is your opportunity to make the case for AWS.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#314

Post by MadDemon »

barnacs wrote: post #177
preisschild wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unelected EU bureucrats" Clearly shows you have absolutely zero idea about what you are talking about and just take your talking points from people like Elon Musk

I happen to live in the EU so I may have a slight clue what I'm talking about. But if you want an authority on the subject, look up Yanis Varoufakis and how sovereignty and democracy worked out for Greece when shit hit the fan.

Greece took on more debt than they could serve. Do you expect the tax payers from other countries to just pay for that without significant changes to how Greece operates? If you can't pay your debts and you can't print your own currency, you lose some sovereignty. But I feel like Greece would have been worse off if they still had the drachma and tried to print their way out of the crisis.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#315

Post by Nextgrid »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #286
Nextgrid wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer I guess we must be living on different planets. I have recently deployed a Django application for a client of mine on Scaleway (due to an existing partnership we preferred using them over other infrastructure). Scaleway right now (you can signup and check it out) offers: * container registry - build an push your containers there * ECS/Fargate equival…

> What more do you need exactly? That's essentially all I would use from the incumbent cloud providers anyway. Pub/Sub, Dataflow, CDN, GLB to name a few. I could go on with the list of services currently used by the people that pay to push buttons. Not to sound offensive, but others have more than a Django app that they need to run.

> I could go on with the list of services currently used by the people that pay to push buttons

I too can build an engineering playground where every ingress byte traverses as many AWS services as I can find. But if you're building a business application, how many of these do you actually need?

Once you have the basic primitives you can fill in the gaps yourself if needed. But in the list you provided, Pub/Sub, CDN and GLB is already covered actually.

I'm sure in due time other services will be covered if there's enough demand, but to claim there is no EU alternative while the basics (app server + DB + S3, aka the most difficult to scale/operate yourself) are covered is a bit misleading I think.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#316

Post by ExoticPearTree »

2III7 wrote: post #223
albert_e wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just geographic regions around the globe. It is also the wide array of services -- well integrated into their primitives of security, authentication, governance, monitoring and logging, etc Is there a EU cloud provider that provides -- even if limited to EU geography -- the equivalent of Blob Storage + Azure Data Lake Storage + Azure Data Factory or Fabric + Microsoft Foundry with native access to OpenAI and…

How about not limiting yourself to specific services? If you've built your product around specific cloud providers services then that is the problem not the fact that there aren't alternatives to those seevices.

Until two years ago, I did not need Google Dataflow as a very specific example. But then new business requirements came in and there were two options:

- develop something internally and support it

- use a cloud provider offering, fire it up and forget about it

The choice was pretty straightforward.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#317

Post by christophilus »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #193

That was a good article, I don’t usually read The Register. Even as a US citizen, I say: good for Europe! The world is simply a better place when countries have independence and can be as self reliant as possible. In the US media there is an ongoing rhetoric that everything in the US is wonderful and everything in the rest of the world is much worse. I am privileged to have travelled widely so I know what a mostly wo…

> The world is simply a better place when countries have independence and can be as self reliant as possible.

I would tend to agree, but to take the other side: This also gives rise to massive wars. You don’t tend to go to war when your economy is so intertwined that war is the economic equivalent of a mass casualty event.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#318

Post by thunfischtoast »

202508042147 wrote: post #290
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

> And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. I worked for/with several European startups. They really didn't need nor aim for planet scale operations. There are also quite a lot of articles about how startups (in any country) focus needlesly on large scalability when they only really have a few customers. It's exactly the same false issue here.

> There are also quite a lot of articles about how startups (in any country) focus needlesly on large scalability when they only really have a few customers. It's exactly the same false issue here.

Large companies do that as well

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#319

Post by ody4242 »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

You don't need hundreds of services. Give me virtual machines, reliable block storage, file storage and object storage, networking, dns, managed kubernetes, and it will cover the majority of workloads in Europe that run on Openshift or Openstack today.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#320

Post by ExoticPearTree »

202508042147 wrote: post #241
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

MS advantage over Google docs was exactly what US cloud providers have over everyone else: lock-in.

I mentioned MS because OOXML is now an open standard, albeit a 6000 pages one, but still open. And a similar sized competitor - Google, is still trying to deliver the same functionality.

The point I'm trying to make is that going from zero to hero, even with basically "infinite" money like Google has is very very very hard.

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