Live data from Hacker News

‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

werd.io

311–320 of 433 posts

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reductionist. Surely you’ve heard of the Torment Nexus? This is along the lines of “If I don’t do it, someone else will get paid to, so it might as well be me that gets paid to do it” which I personally find morally abhorrent.

> Torment Nexus You’re bringing in something that’s (vaguely and poorly, for no one knows what it actually could be) defined as something that fits the narrative and present it: “see, if we think up a tool that’s inherently evil by definition of it, it cannot be neutral”. We might, but could such tool actually exist? (And before we joke about building it, we can think up of its polar opposite too, something unquestio…

Isn’t the purpose of all thought experiments to define something that is relevant to what you’re trying to philosophize about? “Fitting a narrative” is a thought-terminating cliché.

If we agree that there exists at least one thing theoretically whose invention would be unequivocally evil - without a morsel of moral justification, then surely there exists a moral spectrum on which all inventions lie, and the inventors (and builders) are not absolved of their sins by virtue of not having actually used their inventions. Maybe you disagree that even in the case of the Torment Nexus the inventor has no moral reckoning (yikes). Maybe you disagree that it’s a spectrum, and rather binary: Torment Nexus immoral, everything else moral (weird).

That’s why I invoked the Torment Nexus.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#312

Why have we all lost the ability to think in a nuanced way? It’s very disturbing to witness, particularly on a forum like HN, ostensibly populated by smart people. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that people shouldn’t be ma…

Yes yes, shoot mothers in the face in her car. Grab human beings from their homes and detain them thousands of miles away with no due process. Send human beings to detention camps in another country NOT the one they are from Please, people, have some decency and maintain the nuance. We're not barbarians here! Sheesh.

I'm neutral here, but I think the person you're replying to already covered your points when they wrote

> It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The palantirs were made by the elf lord prince Fëanor of Valinor, one of the good guys. The one we see in the film was given to the kings of Gondor and then pilfered by Saruman. (elvish palan 'far', tir 'watch over')

> prince Fëanor > one of the good guys Uhhhh... Feanor drew his sword on his half-brother and threatened to kill him because he was paranoid Fingolfin was trying to usurp his power. He compelled all of his sons to swear an oath to slay any man, elf or being in possession of the silmarils (which led to subsequent needless bloodshed). Then he ordered and carried out the mass-murder of relatively unarmed Teleri in order…

And yet even Feanor was a “good guy” at one point in time. It wasn’t until many years after the invention of the palantiri that he went off the rails, and that was only after talking to Sauron for a while.

But I think that Feanor’s character is irrelevant. An evil person could create a tool that ends up being useful for good purposes. Tools are neutral; they don’t inherit the character of their creator or their user.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#314

Why have we all lost the ability to think in a nuanced way? It’s very disturbing to witness, particularly on a forum like HN, ostensibly populated by smart people. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that people shouldn’t be ma…

Could it just be that people with views at each end of spectrum see posts this like as part of a battleground, and everyone else stays clear of battlegrounds?

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#315

Why have we all lost the ability to think in a nuanced way? It’s very disturbing to witness, particularly on a forum like HN, ostensibly populated by smart people. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that people shouldn’t be ma…

It's because there is extremism both on the left and right: the left thinks that the right wants a power grab to stop left from coming back, and the right thinks that if they don't keep their power now, the left will take it and keep it using immigrants. Both of them are right: unless there's a civil war or moderate president (which probably needs ranked choice voting) the most probable scenario is that one of the 2…

This is peak “both sides”. Just today Trump said he thinks there shouldn’t be any midterms. No Democrat is saying anything remotely like that.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#316

Why have we all lost the ability to think in a nuanced way? It’s very disturbing to witness, particularly on a forum like HN, ostensibly populated by smart people. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that ICE has a clear and ethical mandate while also believing that they are going about fulfilling that mandate via bad methods that need to change. It’s possible to simultaneously believe that people shouldn’t be ma…

Because people get blinded by dogmatic ideologies that chastise them for going against and/or questioning any position held by given side.

It's all or nothing.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#317

I’ve never worked at Palantir, but once you get past the noisy leadership’s villain virtue signaling, every report I’ve read about the platform itself gives me strong “typical enterprise vendor” vibes. A lackluster software offering that is overhyped to institutional purchasers, then shoved down frontline employees’ throats because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. T…

[flagged]

If you ever drove over the speed limit can you be called "an illegal?"

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately while proselytizing about nuance, the side with the power and the guns is working overtime to make it so there is only one valid set of beliefs, and those beliefs are “American”. This is no longer a symmetric conflict of ideologies, I’m not sure what it’s going to take for people to realize this. A tidal wave of blue in the midterms I think is the only hope a lot of us have left. Maybe if that doesn’t c…

[flagged]

To others who read the comment above, we know that this administration has done many illegal actions. Lying about elections and causing an attack on the capitol, then further pardoning the attack is a blatant example of this.

The comment above is frankly disingenuous and disguises blatant strawman fallacy with an air of moral superiority

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#319
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Palantir a loophole? I see this theory a lot (sometimes to justify their valuation, sometimes as a moral judgement, sometimes as an alarmist concern) but I genuinely don't see how this line of thought works in any of these dimensions. My understanding is that they're consultants building overpriced data processing products. As far as I know there isn't even usually a separate legal entity or some kind of corpo…

> How is Palantir a loophole? The big legal loophole is that the government needs a particularized warrant (per the 4th Amendment) to ask for any user data, but if the government buys commercial data, well, there's no warrant needed. I would also submit that it's possible that sending everything through a giant computer-magic-bullshit-mixer allows you to discriminate on the basis of race while claiming plausible deni…

Which has what, exactly, to do with Palantir?

On a somewhat related note, it always bothers me that the discussion is about whether it’s appropriate for the government to buy this sort of data as opposed to whether it is appropriate for anyone to sell, or for that matter collect, that data.

I would prefer if neither the government nor any data brokers or advertisers had this data.

Post reply on HN