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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#311

Post by throwaway2046 »

cardanome wrote: post #42
throwaway2046 wrote: post #25

I've encountered a few artists who partially used AI in their music making process and the results have been incredible, I would hate to see them banned when grouped with people making completely AI-generated slop... Perhaps a middle ground could be reached? Allow AI generated audio as long as it undergoes significant processing by humans, for example.

They are free to use AI and they are free to post their music on other sides that allow AI. I think you need hard rules to make it not completely subjective.

From the original post:

    We reserve the right to remove any music on suspicion of being AI generated.
Sounds completely subjective if you ask me.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#312

Post by parpfish »

fzeroracer wrote: post #206

I feel like the thing like you can easily divide things along the lines of 'art' vs 'consumption'. A lot of people including myself enjoy music because it's so intimately human, the flaws and all. It's someone putting a bit of themselves into every piece they create, and people look for things that resonate with them. AI music however is purely about consumption. It's not something made to be remembered or cherished.…

I think we need to start distinguishing between art-music and utilitarian-music.

Art-music is made by humans as a way of expressing yourself and making human connections.

Utilitarian-music can be made by humans or machines and is there to serve a purpose. Background music for the elevator or while you’re on hold. An ambient soundscape that you play in an airport terminal. It’s not meant to move people, it’s just there to fill silence.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#313

Post by marknutter »

JohnFen wrote: post #279
marknutter wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you came across a song and fell in love with it, only to find out later that it was generated by ai, would you stop loving the song?

Yes, I certainly would. I might even start hating the song, if that discovery left me feeling tricked.

That is such a bizarre opinion to have. Do you not enjoy art because it gives you joy?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#314

Post by astrange »

rambojohnson wrote: post #303
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

AI takes all of that old school idm and electronic music and repackages it without a human story to tell, ripping off actual musicians in the process. AI didn’t magically ‘make old IDM its own.’ It scraped decades of artists’ work, stripped out the context and intent, and reassembled the surface features. There’s no human arc, no lived constraint, no risk and no culture. What’s being repackaged isn’t a new instrument…

I know a few EDM producers and the culture seems to consist of doing the most drugs of anyone you've ever met. Which is quite risky, true.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#315

Post by pixl97 »

miki123211 wrote: post #310
alexjplant wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bandcamp continues to be the best place to organically discover new artists. If I'm ever bored I go to their front page and browse by genre. It feels like the digital version of Sam Goody or whichever 90s record store had the headphone kiosks where you could listen to songs before buying the record. Spotify, on the other hand, induced a level of visceral disgust I'd never felt before when I stumbled across an AI-gene…

This is not Spotify, it's Spotify fraudsters. It's like being mad at your bank that somebody stole your credit card on the subway and made purchases with it.

>It's like being mad at your bank that somebody stole your credit card on the subway and made purchases with it, and then your bank is like "oh, sorry man, we can't do anything about that, guess they have your card forever now"

FTFY.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#316

Post by JohnFen »

pousada wrote: post #240
Gigachad wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are though by sheer volume. Finding anything half good will be a needle in a planet sized haystack of slop.

This has already been the case way before AI was a thing. As a new artist you have to compete against 60+ years of music history - much of it really good music too.

> As a new artist you have to compete against 60+ years of music history

Kinda, sorta. Good music is reflective of the society and era it was produced in and that matters. I regularly listen to music, from all over the world, that was composed (and some, recorded) 100+ years ago, music that was recorded 50+ years ago, and music that was recorded last month. None of them are a substitute for the other because each has a unique voice expressing things that were unique about the time and place they were made in.

So, in a sense, they aren't in competition with each other. But also, there are only so many hours in a day and there isn't enough time in your life to listen to all the worthy music that humans have made. Hard choices are necessary. In that sense, they are in competition with each other.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#317

Post by astrange »

rambojohnson wrote: post #296
yellowapple wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, the anti-AI attitude among musicians today reminds me quite a bit of the anti-synthesizer attitude of the 60's and 70's, down to the same exact talking points: fears of “real” musicians being replaced by nerds pushing buttons on machines that can imitate those musicians. I think the fears were understandable then, and are understandable now. I also think that, just as the fears around synthesize…

> generative AI catch on not by just imitating other instruments, but generative AI didn’t catch on by "imitating instruments." It caught on by imitating artists, which streaming platforms and record labels then repackage and outsell you with. false analogy.

This argument won't get you anywhere because "imitating artists" and "outselling artists" aren't actually the same thing.

i.e. complaining about training on copyrighted material and getting it banned is not sufficient to prevent creating a model that can create music that outsells you. Because training isn't about copying the training material, it's just a way to find the Platonic latent space of music, and you can get there other ways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

https://phillipi.github.io/prh/

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#318

Post by pixl97 »

vharuck wrote: post #304
lukevp wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? AI music is the same as AI code. It’s derived from real code, but it’s not just regurgitated wholesale. You still as a person with taste have to guide it and provide inputs. Electronic music made it so you didn’t have to learn to play an instrument. Auto tune made it…

>And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? Personally, I don't buy this "AI models are learning just like we do." It's an appeal to ignorance. Just because we don't fully understand how a human brain learns, one can't claim it's the same as a statistical model of ordered tokens. But even if it were true, I'm…

>The law and social conventions are for humans.

I don't know about that. America shows us that laws and social conventions are for corporations. Humans are just entities to extract profit from.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#319

Post by falloutx »

codexon wrote: post #183
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

Musicians and artists are under pressure to make money, but they cant rush it

while programmers have to rush it these days or they lose their jobs. Programmers don't have much of say in their companies.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#320

Post by rpdillon »

deng wrote: post #229
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

> I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. Let me guess: you're an amateur musician. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes it much easier to be amused about this topic. > There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along…

He's talking about the demonization of synthesizers, sampling, and digital audio workstations when each were respectively released.
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