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Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

eupolicy.social

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Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#311

Post by MobiusHorizons »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #262
Fiveplus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my head. 1. You keep the modern metallurgy and the crumple zones. You keep ABS and basic traction control because they are solved problems that save lives without needing cloud connectivity. 2. Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in…

>the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. Wondering why transmissions are insanely complicated and un…

> In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way.

I think the reason we even need backup cameras now is that visibility is so poor on modern vehicles. I think that in turn is due to increasing the height of the bottom of the windows for better airbags. I’m sure it’s great in a crash, but visibility is also a safety concern.

Not all of it is regulations though, but lot of common complaints.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#312

Post by Paianni »

loeg wrote: post #270
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

Modern engines are generally more reliable, yes. And galvanised steel and aluminium has helped chassis' and bodies last longer too. I think the 'sweet spot' has passed for most car categories though, the last being city cars when they got mandatory infotainment systems towards the end of the 2010s.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#313

Post by ghurtado »

loeg wrote: post #270
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

The reliability of a vehicle isn't just the frequency of breakdowns.

It's the frequency of breakdowns times how fucked you are when it does break down.

So the actual math also depends on your means and where you live.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#314

Post by threethirtytwo »

KronisLV wrote: post #19
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Like take the C15 and add 2-4 decades of manufactur…

Companies would make less money because consumers just buy a product and keep it for generations if the product quality is THAT good.

When companies make less money, there's less jobs. When there's less jobs people have less money to spend on things like Rent.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#315

Post by bboozzoo »

weli wrote: post #287
emtel wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guillotine for the super rich Can we not glorify mass executions on HN please? Bluesky is available if that's your thing.

When did hacker news become so right wing that saying the French revolution was a good societal movement is seen as "glorifying mass executions"? lmao

Liberty Leading the People would probably be flagged as highly NSFW too.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#316

Post by ghurtado »

KronisLV wrote: post #19
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Like take the C15 and add 2-4 decades of manufactur…

By now, we would have reached a quality standard of vehicles that are regularly passed down across several generations before they stop being useful.

You can quickly see what a mortal sin this would be against our Lord and Savior, Capitalism.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#317

Post by seanmcdirmid »

loeg wrote: post #281
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the hilux would be more popular than the ranger, but maybe Toyota just sends those to the developing world and Australia?

The Hilux is the second best selling truck in Europe, as far as I can tell. The similar (but not identical) US model is the Tacoma.

The Tacoma is gussied up and not Spartan/repairable as the Hilux. I guess it’s more comparable to the current ranger than the hilux is, I wonder if ford makes a stripped down ranger for the developing world? Are there any Ranger Jeepneys? Maybe the T6? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_(T6)

Oddly enough, it says this was developed in Australia but might be the ranger selling in the USA/Europe now (the same one we are talking about). But the P703 is the model (a T6 variant) sold internationally now. It doesn’t surprise me that the current ranger was designed abroad. What I really don’t get is that ford doesn’t make cars in Australia anymore but they still design them there?

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#318

Post by jeron »

kstrauser wrote: post #225
jeron wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably one of the few people in this thread who are actually truck shopping right now The ranger is a great option for most people but one of my capabilities for the truck is to bring my bike to motorcycle track days. Usually I'd only take a single motorcycle, however track days are more fun with friends. to fit two motorcycles in the back of the Ranger, you need to adjust the angle of the handlebars awkwardly…

So, the normal size truck actually carries the things you want to transport, if you move their handlebars. You’d pay an extra $7000 because… you don’t like to pack?

Buying secondhand, the F150 is actually cheaper. I neglected to mention this but there’s a lot more used F150s than Rangers on the market

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#319

Post by vincnetas »

fpoling wrote: post #237
ninalanyon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. The C15 is a workhorse for farmers and craftsmen not for shopping trips and driving the family to visit granny on the other side of town.

EVs are still heavier than ICE vehicles and will for the next 10-20 years unless one is OK with a tiny battery. And heavy weight means more pollution from wheels that produce particles that ends up in lungs. Note brakes also pollutes with asbestos but EVs typically have regenerative braking so I think brakes pollutes roughly the same in a heavier EV as in ICE car.

My EV is lighter than your ICE. Volkswagen eUP. 1183kg. 250km range in summer conditions.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#320

Post by Aurornis »

nottorp wrote: post #255
Aurornis wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Why would people buying the cheapest possible model care? Remote start is a luxury feature. Just ignore the subscription offer like a luxury trim option.

It depends. What else is included in that subscription? Mirror and seat heating by any chance? Can you buy a Toyota that isn't always online? Because having remote start available, subscription or not, sounds like you can't.

> It depends. What else is included in that subscription? Mirror and seat heating by any chance?

Are you saying it is? Or is this a rhetorical question?

Either way, those are again luxury features. If someone is in the market for those features they’re not really looking for the base model any more.

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