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Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#311

Post by [deleted] »

bluerooibos wrote: post #109
smeej wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period. Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes? I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

All you need to do is go to sleep before 12 every single night and wake up at 7am without fail, hit the gym and crank out a few sets of squats, hit the pool and the sauna, read a chapter of that book, and then cook yourself an amazing breakfast, all before 9am. If you're a real go-getter, though, you'd wake up at 6am and do some vibe coding for an hour on that side hustle. Super simple.

[deleted]

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#312

Post by 46493168 »

yomismoaqui wrote: post #68
cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

> Motivation is fleeting but routine persists.

This is tautological: if the action doesnt persist, it isn’t routine.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#313

Post by paulryanrogers »

recursive wrote: post #239
paulryanrogers wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of things I must do is large and growing. Much of it outside my control. Yes, I could sell the house but rent is quite high. Yes, I could divorce the wife but that actually makes for more work. Yes, I could abandon the children but I've grown attached; and that's only legal after finding someone else willing to adopt them and a judge willing to approve it. Yes, I could deny any help with the elderly parents…

I mean, yes. That's true for everyone. Different people have different life circumstances. It's equally important not to decide to do things that one can't realistically do, for whatever reasons there may be. I'm not sure what your point is. Don't sell your house if you don't have a realistic place to live lined up. Don't divorce your wife if it's not worth the work. I'm not saying everyone can or should be grindset…

Sorry if my point was lost in the rant. IME the younger generations are facing an increasingly large burden of must-do's with less slack for them to make any other choices. Growing housing, healthcare, and societal expectations combined with fewer employment opportunities are leaving little room for them to chart their own course.

Some might say it's offset by all the luxuries so widely available. But I personally find it hard to enjoy minor luxuries when so much of life is swallowed by obligations. And I'm one of the luckiest members of my cohort. Most of my high school friends still live with parents or several roommates, have lower paying careers, and/or have to care for more family with serious medical issues. (Though on the latter I seem to be catching up quickly)

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#314

Post by jjtheblunt »

greenie_beans wrote: post #307
jjtheblunt wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then you realize shelters/rescues are full of super healthy dogs yearning for a home, and same for cats, and then you go adopt at least one, and realize you've honored what your previous pet would want for you. (speaking from experience, 5 rescues here now, lots of activity for lots of fun...thankful for WFH flexibility)

not ready for that yet but i look forward to that future

yep, understood, and your future looks bright!

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#315

Post by _DeadFred_ »

cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

Fun fact, people suffering from loss of quality of life issues don't lack motivation. Lots of these people are in great pain, constantly, every day. My mother had a hip issue where the pain could instantly shoot up so bad she couldn't move (from just the normal, constant, almost in tears pain). She couldn't risk going somewhere to exercise, she would be stuck. She couldn't risk exercising on days where she needed to work the next day. Some days she would break down crying going to the grocery store because she had gotten stuck there the previous time she went.

A LOT of quiet unassuming people are INSPIRINGLY motivated to push through INCREDIBLE pain and obstacles, every day. Many that prevent them from 'just exercising until life gets better'. It is bullshit to say they lack motivation/character/willpower.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#316

Post by eudamoniac »

baincs wrote: post #100
cheald wrote: post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

That may be true if you're severely depressed, but I think it can save you if you're starting to get depressed. That's what happened to me at one point, and an online comment saved me. I was like 60% depressed but on my way there. I just took my first computer science class in college but I was overly ambitious when I participated in an undergrad CS research. The stress and imposter syndrome was shoving me to the dow…

If psychiatrists could mind control their depressive patients into doing 2-3 weeks of heavy compound lifts, I'm certain more than half would be cured.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#317

Post by kubanczyk »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #313
recursive wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yes. That's true for everyone. Different people have different life circumstances. It's equally important not to decide to do things that one can't realistically do, for whatever reasons there may be. I'm not sure what your point is. Don't sell your house if you don't have a realistic place to live lined up. Don't divorce your wife if it's not worth the work. I'm not saying everyone can or should be grindset…

Sorry if my point was lost in the rant. IME the younger generations are facing an increasingly large burden of must-do's with less slack for them to make any other choices. Growing housing, healthcare, and societal expectations combined with fewer employment opportunities are leaving little room for them to chart their own course. Some might say it's offset by all the luxuries so widely available. But I personally fi…

It sounds as if you are filing a complaint, but I'm afraid chargebacks are out of question. You have been scammed and given a non-perfect generation to live in.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#318

Post by QuiEgo »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #117
cheald wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still requires willpower, but to use a metaphor, it's much easier to travel down a well-trod path than it is to cut a new path through the jungle. Repetition and consistency establishes the path, so the willpower required to travel down it the next day is reduced over time. Establishing a pre-set time and committing to that time ahead of time removes the "will I or won't I" decision at "go time", when you're most…

This method requires a significant amount of executive function. My body doesn't feel the passage of time consistently. So my mind is never prepared to switch activities when it needs to. And there are times my brain stops working on a particular task and nothing can get it started again. It's like a leg going out, you just can't stand on it. This isn't occasionally where habit could be picked back up. This has been…

Just a shout out here for medication. ADHD meds are rated effective in the 70-90% range, which is just incredibly good compared to medication effectiveness for just about anything else.

I have ADHD, and hate the feeling of being a victim. "I have this, so I can't do that. It's just the way it is." No! Not for this. Not when there are so many treatment options.

I accept that things may be harder for me than a typical person, that I may have to put in more work than other people to get the same results, that this is something that's very real that I have to deal with and manage at all times. That there will be times when I will fail and my stupid monkey brain will win the moment. But I won't let it define me, I won't let it dictate who I am and what I can and cannot do.

EDIT: Also, I mean to agree with you here: there's a point where no amount of discipline will work, and the advice to "just try harder" sounds like an alien telling you to just grow wings and fly. If you find yourself at that point, medicine can and will help. It also helps you be able to get in a routine of actually doing exercise, which in turn helps even more, and it becomes a sweet positive feedback loop.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#319

Post by unparagoned »

This is complete bullshit. Exercise has been show to be more effective than therapy and drugs.

Exercise improves the biological health of the brain which can be fixing the underlying condition.

If you are depressed because your brain is biologically unhealthy, therapy isn’t going to do anything

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#320

Post by unparagoned »

imzadi wrote: post #38

This is only talking about therapy and not medication. The original study is a bit light on details https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD... > For the 57 trials (2189 participants) comparing exercise with no treatment or a control intervention, the pooled SMD for depressive symptoms at the end of treatment was −0.67 (95% confidence interval (CI) −0.82 to −0.52; low‐certainty evidence), showing…

Other metas show exercise is more effective than both therapy and drugs.

ssri don’t fix any underlying condition and barely work long term, that if they really work at all.

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