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Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

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Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#311

Post by Anon1096 »

bongodongobob wrote: post #300
Anon1096 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong about how services that cost 9+ figures to run annually are budgeted. 1% CPU is absolutely massive and well measured and accounted for in these systems.

So you prematurely dump hardware you already own when you see CPU usage go down? I don't think so.

What you're missing is that for these massive systems there's never enough capacity. You can go look at datacenter buildouts YOY if you'd like. Any and all compute power that can be used is being used.

For individual services what that means is that for something like Google Search there will be dozens of projects in the hopper that aren't being worked on because there's just not enough hardware to supply the feature (for example something may have been tested already at small scale and found to be good SEO ranking wise but compute expensive). So a team that is able to save 1% CPU can directly repurpose that saved capacity and fund another project. There's whole systems in place for formally claiming CPU savings and clawing back those savings to fund new efforts.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#312

Post by m4rtink »

embedding-shape wrote: post #281
m4rtink wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the massive adoption of web apps in Enterprise I have seen I would expect Windows to become irelevant or even a liability in business use as well.

Still, some sort of OS is required to run that browser that renders the websites, and some team needs to manage a fleet of those computers running that OS. And that's where Microsoft will sit, since they're unable to build good consumer products, they'll eventually start focusing exclusively on businesses and enterprises.

If you just need something that runs a browser, can't you do that with something like Chrome OS/MacOS/RHEL Workstation/whatever SUSE has for workstation users ? :)

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#313

Post by LeFantome »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #197
Fiveplus wrote: post #17

Valve is practically singlehandedly dragging the Linux ecosystem forward in areas that nobody else wanted to touch. They needed Windows games to run on Linux so we got massive Proton/Wine advancements. They needed better display output for the deck and we got HDR and VRR support in wayland. They also needed smoother frame pacing and we got a scheduler that Zuck is now using to run data centers. Its funny to think tha…

One would've expected one of the many desktop-oriented distros (some with considerable funding, even) to have tackled these things already, but somehow desktop Linux has been stuck in the awkward midway of "it technically works, just learn to live with the rough edges" until finally Valve took initiative. Go figure.

What desktop Linux distro has “considerable funding”?

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#314

Post by LeFantome »

iknowstuff wrote: post #205
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would've expected one of the many desktop-oriented distros (some with considerable funding, even) to have tackled these things already, but somehow desktop Linux has been stuck in the awkward midway of "it technically works, just learn to live with the rough edges" until finally Valve took initiative. Go figure.

There's far more of that, starting with the lack of a stable ABI in gnu/linux distros. Eventually Valve or Google (with Android) are gonna swoop in with a user-friendly, targetable by devs OS that's actually a single platform

Valve has been pretty clear that Win32 is the platform.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#315

Post by marcodiego »

IshKebab wrote: post #157
asveikau wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at Microsoft during the Windows 8 cycle. I remember hearing about a kernel feature I found interesting. Then I found linux had it for a few years at the time. I think the reality is that Linux is ahead on a lot of kernel stuff. More experimentation is happening.

Yeah and Linux is waaay behind in other areas. Windows had a secure attention sequence (ctrl-alt-del to login) for several decades now. Linux still doesn't.

Please check the relates wikipedia article. Updated to reflect recent secure attention key in the linux world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_attention_key

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#316

Post by marcodiego »

baq wrote: post #99
Fiveplus wrote: post #17

Valve is practically singlehandedly dragging the Linux ecosystem forward in areas that nobody else wanted to touch. They needed Windows games to run on Linux so we got massive Proton/Wine advancements. They needed better display output for the deck and we got HDR and VRR support in wayland. They also needed smoother frame pacing and we got a scheduler that Zuck is now using to run data centers. Its funny to think tha…

I low key hope the current DDR5 prices push them to drag the Linux memory and swap management into the 21st century, too, because hard locking on low memory got old a while ago

I thought that was fixed after MGLRU.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#317

Post by trinsic2 »

crtasm wrote: post #258
trinsic2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, im sorry. Valve is the last company people should be focusing for this type of behavior. All the other AAA game companies use these mechanics to deliberate manipulate players. IMHO valve doesn't use predatory practices to keep this stuff going.

How much of the video did you watch? I'm not aware of other game companies that enable 3rd party integrations into their item systems. This isn't just "lootboxes bad" - it's Valve profiting from actual gambling happening on external sites.

If you want to see how bad this really is, take a look at AAA games like call of duty where they dynamically alter in game loot mechanics to get people to purchase in game items.

Value is chump change in this department. They allow the practice of purchasing loot boxes and items but don't analyze and manipulate behaviors. Valve is the least bad actor in this department.

I watched half the video and found it pretty biased compared to whats happening in the industry right now.

I feel this argument of Valve deliberately profiting off of gambling not really the whole story. I certainly dont think that Valve designed there systems to encourage gambling. More like they wanted a way to bring in money to develop other areas of their platform so they can make it better, which they did. And in many cases are putting players first. Players developed bad behaviors around purchasing in-game and trading items and have chosen to indulge in the behavior. 3rd parties have rose up around a unhealthy need that IMHO is not Valves doing. And most importantly, since I was around when these systems went into place, allowing me to see what was happening, this kind of player behavior developed over time. I don't think Valve deliberately encouraged it.

The entire gaming industry is burning down before our eyes because of AAA greed and you guys are choosing to focus on the one company thats fighting against it. Im not getting it.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#318

Post by trinsic2 »

heywoods wrote: post #107
trinsic2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, im sorry. Valve is the last company people should be focusing for this type of behavior. All the other AAA game companies use these mechanics to deliberate manipulate players. IMHO valve doesn't use predatory practices to keep this stuff going.

Just because they weren’t the first mover into predatory practices doesn’t mean they can’t say no to said practices. Each actor has agency to make their own operating and business decisions. Is Valve the worst of the lot? Absolutely not. But it was still their choice to implement.

They have a track record of not engaging in these practices. It might be true that someday, we will get the wrong people in leadership positions at Valve that would entertain this behavior, but so far I don't think its going to happen. Valve has been time and time again, on the side of sane thinking around these topics. So IMHO your concern isn't really warranted as of yet.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#319

Post by roblabla »

eqvinox wrote: post #295
roblabla wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux (well, more accurately, X11), has had a SAK for ages now, in the form of the CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE that immediately kills X11, booting you back to the login screen. I personally doubt SAK/SAS is a good security measure anyways. If you've got untrusted programs running on your machine, you're probably already pwn'd.

That's not a SAK, you can disable it with setxkbmap. A SAK is on purpose impossible to disable, and it exists on Linux: Alt+SysRq+K. Unfortunately it doesn't take any display server into consideration, both X11 and Wayland will just get killed.

There are many a ways to disable CTRL+ALT+DEL on windows too, from registry tricks to group policy options. Overall, SAK seems to be a relic of the past that should be kept far away from any security consideration.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#320

Post by QuiEgo »

dijit wrote: post #49
benoau wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It just works" sleep and hibernate. "Slide left or right" CPU and GPU underclocking.

“it just works” sleep was working, at least on basically every laptop I had the last 10 years… until the new s2idle stuff that Microsoft and Intel have foisted on the world (to update your laptop while sleeping… I guess?)

Power management is a really hard problem. It's the stickiest of programming problems, a multi-threaded sequence where timing matters across threads (sometimes down to the ns). I'm convinced only devices that have hardware and software made by the same company (Apple, Andoid phones, Steam deck, maybe Surface laptops) have a shot in hell at getting it perfect. The long-tail/corner cases and testing is a nightmare.

As an example, if you have a mac, run "ioreg -w0 -p IOPower" and see all the drivers that have to interact with each other to do power management.

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