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How getting richer made teenagers less free

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Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#311

Post by renewiltord »

delichon wrote: post #308
renewiltord wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, a coyote bit a child in Golden Gate Park. The animal rights idiots blamed the child for playing in the park and running in the bushes. Rightfully the coyote was destroyed but allowing the childless to vote is a disaster. They do weird things like this.

> allowing the childless to vote is a disaster. I've never met a Matriarchist before.

You know what, I’m happy to lose the franchise if it will take it away from the childless women. These people who redirect their obviously innate mother instinct to wild animals are far too risky to allow near government.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#312

Post by ericmcer »

Desafinado wrote: post #273

Modernity has caused us to lose touch with our roots. When kids were a necessity in the household or farm they would naturally learn the skills they needed to thrive as adults. Modernity has upended this connection. Now having kids is basically a hobby that's almost guaranteed to make you poorer. Point being that 'parenting' has become unnatural because the cyclical environment of 'do what your parents do' has been l…

Modernity has also made life really fucking complicated. A 16 year old could walk to the factory, get some paper money and then do what they wanted with it.

Nowadays lets say your 16 year old wants a car and a job. To do that they need to schedule multiple tests with DMV, lessons with a driving instructor, update insurance documents and find the time to do hours of practice with you. At the end of that they need to navigate buying a used/new vehicle and setting up insurance. Then they need to navigate the world of job applications, and if they manage to get hired they will need to have their direct deposit bank account setup and have some kind of credit card payment system setup so they can use the money.

Seriously just typing this I get exhausted. It makes sense why parents are hovering over their kids because there are 10,000 things that need to get handled just to like be a "person". You can either watch your kid drown in a mire of bureaucracy or just let them focus on school and offload all of it from them.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#313

Post by Desafinado »

ericmcer wrote: post #312
Desafinado wrote: post #273

Modernity has caused us to lose touch with our roots. When kids were a necessity in the household or farm they would naturally learn the skills they needed to thrive as adults. Modernity has upended this connection. Now having kids is basically a hobby that's almost guaranteed to make you poorer. Point being that 'parenting' has become unnatural because the cyclical environment of 'do what your parents do' has been l…

Modernity has also made life really fucking complicated. A 16 year old could walk to the factory, get some paper money and then do what they wanted with it. Nowadays lets say your 16 year old wants a car and a job. To do that they need to schedule multiple tests with DMV, lessons with a driving instructor, update insurance documents and find the time to do hours of practice with you. At the end of that they need to n…

That's true, but the parenting part isn't actually that complicated, particularly at a young age when you're laying the foundation. Basically just stay out of the way and let your kids do stuff. Don't do anything for them that they can do for themselves. That way they learn problem solving skills and gain the confidence to follow through on things, so when they're 16 they are capable of navigating buying a car and getting a job.

Somehow this isn't intuitive for parents, though. They feel like they need to show and do things for their kid, rather than letting them pick up the experience of doing themselves.

When I was growing up my parents were borderline neglectful in how they handled my brother and I, but in that neglect we were forced to deal with situations ourselves, gain experience, and discover who we were. Counterintuitively, that approach was actually more fruitful than being over-present.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#314

Post by lurking_swe »

em-bee wrote: post #240
YaeGh8Vo wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's striking is the helplessness that seeps through your message. As if you had zero control over what happens. You're just a bystander watching what happens to your children. It's time for you to wake up, and start exercising your own authority.

you are not married, are you? that's not how this works. while they certainly need to talk, and not just once, but continuously, you don't have the authority to change your partners behavior. you need to discuss your feelings about this matter and come to a consensus about the activities and the goals for your child. it won't be easy. if i were in this position, i can't imagine what i would do. i feel even stronger t…

well i’ll also point out, as a married man, my partner doesn’t have the “authority” to unilaterally decide how our child is raised. Notice the word OUR. There is no “I” in the word our.

It’s a joint decision. If it’s not, then you’re not operating as a team. If you’re not operating as a team…then you have a marriage problem IMO. Simple as that.

The healthy marriage outcome would be talking about it and compromising in some fashion. “my way or the highway”…yikes.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#315

Post by lucyjojo »

Loughla wrote: post #165
dlisboa wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a useless statistic in this context. Statistically you're more likely to be killed by yourself than someone else. So, do you kill yourself to get it over with? Do you let a shooter shoot you because statistically it's better that the gun is on their hands than yours? Ridiculous, right? It's just a zero insight use of numbers.

That's literally my point. I did exactly what you did, just in a different context to point out the absurdity of the statement.

i see it as blatantly ignoring risks because they don't align to your worldview

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#316

Post by armada651 »

squeefers wrote: post #235
CrossVR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a suburb what else is there to do? Going to any interesting spots to hang out with friends involve asking your parents to bring you there with the family car and then arranging a strict timetable on when to pick you up again.

> If you're in a suburb what else is there to do? i mean, i agree with you, theres nothing to do anymore. but surely there was less to do in the 50s? if youre poor, theres never much to do really.

In the 70s and 80s if you wanted to play video games you would go to an arcade and meet other kids there. Where are those arcades now? Or you might go to and hang out at a mall, but those are few and far in between now too.

The fact that adults don't have third places anymore affects kids just as much, maybe even more.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#317

Post by ozozozd »

NavinF wrote: post #247
nathan_compton wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is called class anxiety. The US is a place where if you don't make it into or stay in at least the middle class your life sucks. You can't get healthcare, you have to work three jobs, you're treated like shit. If you want less helicopter parenting you have to create a more supportive society in general, one where there are chances to recover from failure, and one where failing to compete at the top is not a senten…

> You can't get healthcare Kinda thing only sheltered people say. When I was unemployed and on free gov't health insurance (medi-cal), I got all my healthcare for free and most of my appointments like MRIs were next-day. Not as good as tech company insurance, but "can't get healthcare" is not a thing in the US. > you have to work three jobs Plot the number of people working multiple jobs vs time and you'll see a flat…

62-65% of all bankruptcies in the US are tied to medical expenses.

Your comment is a textbook example of survivorship bias.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#318

Post by ozozozd »

owisd wrote: post #18

If you want ideas for what you can do about it, "Let Grow" (founded by the Anxious Generation author and others) provides resources for raising more independent kids and campaigning against anti-kid neighborhoods and overly burdensome neglect laws - https://letgrow.org

One of the testimonies mentions a 4 year old cooking dinner (pancakes, eggs and sausages).

That takes an unbelievable a level of dexterity for a 4 year old. Reminds me of those social media posts of 4 year olds saying things that are way beyond the wisdom they may possess.

I call BS.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#319

Post by pendenthistory »

takinola wrote: post #241
throwaway732255 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

I obviously don’t know your specific situation but having brought up kids in a similar environment, I may be able to offer some possible explanation for what you are living through. First, never underestimate the impact of your environment on your way of thinking. We all like to think we’re independent thinkers but really we’re much more influenced by the people we interact with than we could even realize. Once you h…

These parents (who believe there is one path to future success) will be in for a rude awakening in the coming 10-20 years when all the traditional high-status career paths have dried up. Can they not see the writing on the wall? Not that I would ever be such a parent, but even if I was, there's no point in pressuring and forcing your kids into this lifestyle given the unpredictability of the future. My goal is just supporting and letting my kid do the things that interest them.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#320

Post by pendenthistory »

Aeolun wrote: post #218
throwaway732255 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

Hmm, I’m fairly certain the ‘having children’ part is what triggers total collapse of the previous worldview. My spouse was adamant that we wouldn’t force our child to study excessively, but we’re at 7 years old and we have a 50cm stack of extra activities books that need to be worked through every morning and evening, in addition to the homework the school sets. It’s madness. The class teacher told me he’s not even…

The US? My 2nd grader has one piece of homework per week, which takes about 10 minutes. If there was more I would tell the teacher to shove it. Instead I talk to my child. If he's interested we talk more about that, otherwise we switch to a topic that interests him. We've covered a lot of science, astronomy and math. Lately I've been telling him about primes, factorization and cryptography. I think our conversations lead to a love of learning and curiosity that is 100x more beneficial than a 50cm stack of homework...
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