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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#311

Post by bfeynman »

nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

| Kinda surprised they didn’t run into model collapse problems

Not sure why you would expect this, all the models started doing this as its much more cost effective to get data for post training don't you remember the first grok release where many times it started replies "as a model trained by openai..."

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#312

Post by pjc50 »

xp84 wrote: post #284
rapind wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technically, yes. The CCP, though, wants to incentivize Chinese firms to use domestically-manufactured chips. This couldn’t be playing out better for Xi. Trump is China’s best president. I used to think Trump was clueless and being outplayed, but now I realize he’s just looting and couldn’t care less about protectionism or the American worker. Every single action from this administration can be explained by greed a…

> Every single action from this administration can be explained by greed and ego. I highly agree with you - and that’s coming from someone who can’t stand the Democrats[1]. Things like announcing all of a sudden that he opposes a merger when everybody knows Kushner is involved with a rival bid… it’s too obvious how much corruption is his very operating system. [1] (I didn’t vote for either candidate for President, bu…

The lesson from Mamdani is that the only way forwards for actual policy based and anticorruption politics is within the Democrat primaries. These are even run by the state in many states, I believe.

Eradicate the Republican party as an organization, split the Democrats into "normal right" and "maybe a bit left" factions, and see if you can get preference voting in there as well while asking for a pony.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#313

Post by pjc50 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #234
yannyu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just "might makes right" but modern. I don't know that this is the consistent, wide-held belief that you seem to think it is. Plenty of people would rather our governments not engage in clandestine disruption and undermining of foreign governments. Competition is inevitable, especially between geopolitical rivals, but we don't have to engage in Minitrue-style "the enemy has always been our enemy" rhetoric.

Do you think countries behave differently than what the parent has said? This has been going on forever, since the first clan of humans fought another, any reasoning other than "might makes right" is a post-hoc rationalization not based in history.

Can we at least distinguish between descriptive and normative?

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#314

Post by PapstJL4U »

jrm4 wrote: post #288
echelon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

That first sentence feels like one of those fake-deep things that sounds important, but can effectively be used to justify about anything? Which is to say, in a world that's -- you know -- a society; not screwing over the other guy is often, if not usually, a good way to "optimize your own citizens economic prospects," too.

The very first sentence crashes and burns, because there are multiple moral systems and compasses. Using "imperative" in the context of morals is extra spicy, because it reference a very specific, very strict moral code - The Categorical Imperative.

The CI is, in my experience, not a moral system about personal or group advantage, but about rules the can govern everybody.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#315

Post by Matl »

sofixa wrote: post #148
Matl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China banned them AFTER the US first banned them and then unbanned them and a series of unfriendly trade moves by the US. This discussion where China is always purely dishonest, bad etc. without any context is honestly lame. The Chinese ban is largely a political move designed to signal that they're not going to be pushed around. They pretty much know companies are using them, (and H100 in Thailand etc.) but as long…

> It's certainly better than the EU just rolling over for King Donald, which as a EU citizen is embarrassing. I'm seeing it more as buying time thing. In sourcing as much as possible in the EU is already in progress, as well as various trade agreements with different countries and economic blocs. That doesn't mean it isn't preferable to play nice with the demented guy to make the transition less painful in the short…

The problem is, the EU is damaging its relationships with countries like China and India etc. too, rather than building strategic alliances,

On diplomatic trips, it often 'lectures' others, rather than listens. I think the EU is less and less liked by these other countries too, which is a disastrous combination when coupled with where the US is at imo.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#316

Post by BeFlatXIII »

rllearneratwork wrote: post #260
ComputerGuru wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as training data All the labs permitting synthetic data do that.

pretty sure it is against ToS for ChatGPT, Claude and Gemini.

Not the heckin' ToS!

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#317

Post by gessha »

satvikpendem wrote: post #234
yannyu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just "might makes right" but modern. I don't know that this is the consistent, wide-held belief that you seem to think it is. Plenty of people would rather our governments not engage in clandestine disruption and undermining of foreign governments. Competition is inevitable, especially between geopolitical rivals, but we don't have to engage in Minitrue-style "the enemy has always been our enemy" rhetoric.

Do you think countries behave differently than what the parent has said? This has been going on forever, since the first clan of humans fought another, any reasoning other than "might makes right" is a post-hoc rationalization not based in history.

The theory that humans are evil to one another and that this behavior has been going on since the dawn of time has shaky grounds. David Graeber looks for alternative explanations in his book [1] The Dawn of Everything.

https://davidgraeber.org/books/the-dawn-of-everything-a-new-...

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#318

Post by BeFlatXIII »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #41
mongrelion wrote: post #6

I recommend everyone to watch GamersNexus' documentary on the NVIDIA AI GPU black market. They explain how companies like DeepSeek can get a hold of chips that are otherwise banned by the US government to export to China https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H3xQaf7BFI

One of the keys being, of course, that the Chinese government doesn't care. Yeah it might require mules bringing the GPUs into China but once they're in China, no one is breaking any laws. Of course DeepSeek is using these GPUs! It's not illegal for them to do so!

Why would the Chinese government care about US export restrictions in the first place?

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#319

Post by nish__ »

platevoltage wrote: post #297
nish__ wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Dad is wise. And you can Google it.

It's fine if you don't know.

Communism is a political and economic ideology aiming for a classless society where the community, rather than individuals, owns major resources like factories and land, distributing wealth based on need.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#320

Post by nish__ »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #301
nish__ wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only let some of them out. And it's hard to get a passport. Most other countries work the opposite way. You need approval to enter. In China, you need approval to exit.

Personally, I'm against both of those.

So just no borders? That's fair I guess.
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