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MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

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Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#311

Post by valyala »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #214
valyala wrote: post #207

What is the purpose of MinIO, Seaweedfs and similar object storage systems? They lack durability guarantees provided by S3 and GCS. They lack "infinite" storage promise contrary to S3 and GCS. They lack "infinite" bandwidth unlike S3 and GCS. They are more expensive than other storage options, unlike S3 and GCS.

S3 is a widely supported API schema, so if you need something on-prem, you use these.

But what's the point to use these DIY object storage systems, when they do not provide durability and other important guarantees provided by S3 and GCS?

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#312

Post by valyala »

spapas82 wrote: post #222
valyala wrote: post #207

What is the purpose of MinIO, Seaweedfs and similar object storage systems? They lack durability guarantees provided by S3 and GCS. They lack "infinite" storage promise contrary to S3 and GCS. They lack "infinite" bandwidth unlike S3 and GCS. They are more expensive than other storage options, unlike S3 and GCS.

Minio allows you to have an s3 like interface when you have your own servers and storage.

MinIO also allows losing your data, since it doesn't provide high durability guarantees unlike S3 and GCS.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#313

Post by written-beyond »

chrislusf wrote: post #309
written-beyond wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on earning that opportunity! Thank you for your work. I was in a position where I had to choose between minio and seaweed FS and though seaweed FS was better in every way the lack of an includes dashboard or UI accessibility was a huge factor for me back then. I don't expect or even want you to make any roadmap changes but just wanted to let you know of a possible pain point.

Thank! There is an admin UI already. AI coding makes this fairly easy.

I'm sorry I probably missed it then, this was like 4 years ago so I could be wrong.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#314

Post by bogomipz »

0x073 wrote: post #23
giancarlostoro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm both shocked and not surprised. Lots of questions: Are they doing that bad from the outcry? Or are they just keeping a private version and going completely commercial only? If so, how do they bypass the AGPL in doing so, I assume they had contributions under the AGPL.

"For enterprise support and actively maintained versions, please see MinIO AIStor." Commercial only, they will replace the agpl contributions from external people. (Or at least they will say that)

It's worth noting their enterprise support is a joke. As is their whole pivot to "AI." Their pitch is that they are an AI company now. Good riddance. I look forward to a good community fork.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#315

Post by ahepp »

dark-star wrote: post #237
aftbit wrote: post #79

Shocker... they abandoned POSIX compatibility, built a massively over-complicated product, then failed to compete with things like Ceph on the metal side or ubiquitous S3/R2/B2 on the cloud side.

S3 object names are not POSIX compatible. "foo" and "foo/bar" are valid S3 object names that cannot coexist on a POSIX filesystem

So when we say "they abandoned posix compatibility", are we saying "They abandoned the POSIX filesystem storage backend"? I believe that's true, I used to use minio on a FreeBSD server but after an update I had to switch to just passing in zfs block devs.

Or are we saying that they no longer support running minio on POSIX systems at all, due to using linux specific syscalls or something else I'm not thinking of? I don't know whether they did this or not.

Those seem like two very different things to me, and when someone says "they don't support POSIX", I assume the latter

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#316

Post by giancarlostoro »

mbreese wrote: post #101
giancarlostoro wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely not how its written or interpreted. Microsoft had to release code because they touched GPL code some years back I think it was for HyperV? We're talking about a company with many lawyers at the ready not being able to skirt the GPL in any way, like undoing the code. Additionally, in order to CHANGE the license, if others contributed code under that license, you would need their permission, on top of…

What I'm really curious about is if their most recent enterprise versions/code must be released under AGPL. And if so, can they restrict customers from distributing AGPL'd code through an enterprise contract? I can't see how this is a defensible position for Minio, but I'm not sure they really care that much at this point.

That would be a violation of the AGPL.

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#317

Post by gjsjchd6 »

foota wrote: post #285
pabs3 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be incorrect, LWN tracks statistics about contributor employers for every Linux kernel release and their latest post about that says that "(None)" (ie unpaid contributions) beat a number of large companies, including RedHat by the lines changed metric, or SUSE by the changesets metric. https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1046966/f957408bbdd4d388/

Well yes, but the vast majority of changes (~95%, by either changes or lines) seem to be from contributors supported by employers.

[dead]

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#318

Post by lima »

victormy wrote: post #233

Big thanks to MinIO, RustFS, and Garage for their contributions. That said, MinIO closing the door on open source so abruptly definitely spooked the community. But honestly, fair play to them—open source projects eventually need a path to monetization. I’ve evaluated both RustFS and Garage, and here’s the breakdown: Release Cadence: Garage feels a bit slower, while RustFS is shipping updates almost weekly. Licensing:…

Shipping updates almost weekly is the opposite of what I want for a complex, mission-critical distributed system. Building a production-ready S3 replacement requires careful, deliberate and rigorous engineering work (which is what Garage is doing[1]).

It's not clear if RustFS is even implementing a proper distributed consensus mechanism. Erasure Coding with quorum replication alone is not enough for partition tolerance. I can't find anything in their docs.

[1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2302.13798

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#319

Post by lima »

valyala wrote: post #311
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S3 is a widely supported API schema, so if you need something on-prem, you use these.

But what's the point to use these DIY object storage systems, when they do not provide durability and other important guarantees provided by S3 and GCS?

When you want just the API for compatibility, I guess?

Self-hosted S3 clones with actual durability guarantees exist, but the only properly engineered open source choices are Ceph + radosgw (single-region, though) or Garage (global replication based on last-writer-wins CRDS conflict resolution).

Re: MinIO is now in maintenance-mode

#320

Post by paulddraper »

conqrr wrote: post #224
paulddraper wrote: post #210

Open source is not a sustainable business model. There are two ways open source projects continue. 1. The creator has a real, solid way to make money (React by Facebook, Go by Google). 2. The project is extremely popular (Linux, PostreSQL). Is it possible for people to reliably keep working for ~free? In theory yes, but if you expect that, you have a very bad understanding of 98% of human behavior.

They are making lot of enterpise bucks though. And they did start as Open Source. Killing it midway to serve their convenience is the issue. There's also tonne of Open Source that isn't as popular but serving niche communities. It's definitely harder but not impossible. OS core and paid hosting with bells and whistles has proven to be a good sustainable model.

> OS core and paid hosting with bells and whistles has proven to be a good sustainable model

Redis, Elasticsearch, Terraform, MongoDB, CockroachDB have all changed their OSS licenses in recent years.

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