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.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

311–320 of 605 posts

Re: .NET 10

#311
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I was somewhat recently attempting to help my manager get a C# dev environment set up. He was used to doing everything the C/Java/JavaScript/Python/almost-every-language-under-the-sun way, and avoiding the "Microsoft way" of doing things created so many roadblocks. I had no idea that over the previous ~20 years I had been practicing a C# compiler summoning ritual and had become incredibly good at it. From the start I…

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Re: .NET 10

#312
post #129

How is .NET debugging on the command line? I don't use IDEs that often and last time I tried making something serious with .NET I couldn't find any kind of reliable debugger that I could just spin up and get to grips with. And I wasn't exactly very keen on switching from VS build tools to full VS just to debug .NET apps.

There's an open source one by Samsung that is excellent, never had any issues with it: https://github.com/Samsung/netcoredbg

I think I tried that (or a derivative of it, didn't know Samsung was the primary developer) that broke in some very very weird ways. Will try this version, thanks!

Re: .NET 10

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the famous benchmark that put ASP.NET in #1 spot was hyperoptimzied to hell while competing with normal implementations of other systems. https://web.archive.org/web/20250330225652/https://dusted.co... archived version becasue original one gives 404 currently according to techempower benchmarks ASP.net is 55th overall in minimal variant, while being 83 in normal one in Fortunes benchmark which is basically a normal u…

Look at plaintext results if you want to compare just servers. Fortunes benchmark has too many variables (including db queries etc) to say anything about server performance. As for fortunes benchmark, for more realistick Java performance numbers I would look at Spring. Also there are many shady things on those Java bencmarks.

I think saying that Spring is the representative of Java metrics is somewhat equivalent to saying that full aspnet mvc is the representative of dotnet metrics.

On the dotnet side, both Oxpecker and Giraffe (Giraffe being written by the author of that post) perform very well with simple code and from what I see, no "tricks". It's all standard "how the docs say to write it" code (muuuuch different than those platform benchmarks that were rightfully scrutinized in the referenced blog post).

On the jvm side, I started looking for a reference near the top without any targeted non-default optimizations (which is really what I personally look for in these). The inverno implementation has a few things that I'd call non-standard (any time I see a byte buffer I imagine that's not how most people are utilizing the framework), but otherwise looks normal. I recall an earlier quarkus implementation that I read through a couple years ago (same repo) that wasn't as optimized with small things like that and performed very well, but it seems they've since added some of those types of optimizations as well.

All to say: If you venture outside the standard of either platform (full fatty aspnet/ef or spring/hibernate) you can make the tradeoff of framework convenience for performance. However when it comes to the cost/benefit ratio, you're either going to be joining a company using the former, or writing your own thing using the latter (most likely).

Re: .NET 10

#314

Every time I read about new .NET version improvements I always remember my attempt to get a job using this stack in my local job market (Greece), where .NET Framework is super prevalent, majorly used by classic companies that don't even give you a fair technical chance if you lack a degree, and the devs are considered to be a cost center. I really, REALLY wish I was in another timeline where I could say in an intervi…

> don't even give you a fair technical chance if you lack a degree, and the devs are considered to be a cost center.

I've never considered how lucky I am to live in the U.S. and to work at a company that absolutely sees the dev team to be a huge asset rather than another cost. The amount of time, money, stress we've saved by not allowing bad code to enter the code base.. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Also, I've had such great success hiring people without degrees. Truly some of our best contributors came from entirely different career paths. Same applies for some designers I work with.

Re: .NET 10

#315
post #221
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups In my experience .NET/C# dwarfs pretty much any other framework in the SMB and there are WAY more software companies that aren't considered "startups" than those tagged as "startups".

Yeah, but it's very likely you won't be working like a mule, or creating a bicycle with three wheels. How could oneself be innovative and top talent under such conditions?

Re: .NET 10

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

C# and Java might be similar technologies at some level but they not similar developer experiences at all.

Re: .NET 10

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

I haven't kept aware of changes to Java in the last decade, but the things I didn't like about it then were:

1. The overall architecture (with the JVM) made it slower than the equivalent C# code.

2. C# really started embracing modern language features at a time when Java was kind of languishing (lambda functions, async patterns). Java seems like it's been in perpetual catch-up since then.

(Not OP, disclaimer, I work for Microsoft and this is only my opinion).

Re: .NET 10

#318
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma. I tried .NET and liked C# as a language. But even though the language and runtime are now open source, it seemed like a lot of the recommended libraries were still commercially licensed, which was an immediate nope from me. I've never encountered that in any other ecosystem.

This one was weird to me at first too, coming from Python.

Nowadays, the ones I use have reasonable licenses and pricing, like ImageSharp. Free until 1M gross revenue, cheap afterwards. I support this type of dual licensing wholeheartedly.

Re: .NET 10

#319
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

> I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma

There are plenty of real issues that are not the enterprise stigma.

I built a backend web api this year with it and C# is fantastic. EF Core is truly one of the best ORMs I've ever used. That said, I regret that decision and won't be using it again for any new projects.

Honestly it looks like Microsoft is distracted and doesn't really know what to do with .NET. Everywhere you look there are tons of half baked projects like Blazor, Identity or Kiota and progress in .NET is super slow. It's probably going to get worse now with all the AI crap.

Re: .NET 10

#320
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

Agreed... 2 -> 3 was probably the most cumbersome for me, and 3 -> 5 had a few hiccups. But since 6, I haven't seen any huge issues.
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