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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#311

Post by kccqzy »

Aissen wrote: post #180
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

That's a cultural issue. Initially at my workplace people needed to ask permissions to deploy their code. The team approving the deployment got sick of it and built a self-service deployment tool with security controls built in and now deployment is easy. All it matters is a culture of trusting other fellow employees, a culture of automating, and a culture of valuing internal users.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#312

Post by lnenad »

esskay wrote: post #267
realitysballs wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

You still need those same people even if you're running on a bunch of EC2 and RDS instances, they aren't magically 'safer'.

I mean, by definition yes they are. RDS is locked down by default. Also if you're using ECS/Fargate (so not EC2) as the person writing the article does, it's also pretty much locked down outside of your app manifest definitions. Also your infra management/cost is minimal compared to running k8s and bare metal.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#313

Post by ecshafer »

rcxdude wrote: post #292
ecshafer wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every large organization that is all in on cloud I have worked at has several teams doing cloud work exclusively (CICD, Devops, SRE, etc), but every individual team is spending significant amounts of their time doing cloud development on top of that work.

This. There's a lot of talk of 'oh you will spend so much time managing your own hardware' when I've found in practice it's much less time than wrangling the cloud infrastructure. (Especially since the alternatives are usually still a hosting provider that mean you don't have to physically touch the hardware at all, though frankly that's often also an overblown amount of time. The building/internet/cooling is what co…

The cost to run data-centers for a large company that is past the co-location phase, I am not sure where those calculations come out to. But yeah in my experience, running even a fairly large amount of bare metal nix servers in colocation facilities are really not that time consuming.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#314

Post by kccqzy »

ozim wrote: post #194
lisperforlife wrote: post #11

I think you can get much farther with dedicated servers. I run a couple of nodes on Hetzner. The performance you get from a dedicated machine even if it is a 3 year old machine that you can get on server auction is absolutely bonkers and cannot be compared to VMs. The thing is that most of the server hardware is focused towards high core count, low clock speed processors that optimize for I/O rather than compute. It…

As mentioned multiple times in other comments and places people think that doing what Google or FB is doing should be what everyone else is doing. We are running modest operations on European VPS provider where I work and whenever we get a new hire (business or technical does not matter) it is like a Groundhog day - I have to explain — WE ALREADY ARE IN THE CLOUD, NO YOU WILL NOT START "MIGRATING TO CLOUD PROJECT" ON…

> doing what Google or FB is doing

Google doesn't even deploy most of its own code to run on VMs. Containers yes but not VMs.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#315

Post by Arch-TK »

kitd wrote: post #253
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

People are usually the biggest cost in any organisation. If you can run all your systems without the sysadmins & netadmins required to keep it all upright (especially at expensive times like weekends or run up to Black Friday/Xmas), you can save yourself a lot more than the extra it'll cost to get a cloud provider to do it all for you.

What is more likely to fail? The hardware managed by Hetzner or your product?

I'm not saying that you won't experience hardware failures, I am just saying that you also need to remember that if you want your product to keep working over the weekend then you must have someone ready to fix it over the weekend.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#316

Post by kachapopopow »

tom1337 wrote: post #135
kachapopopow wrote: post #81

This is pretty bad still, with colocation you can get the costs down to 1/100th with good deals at datacenters especially ones that are struggling to attract customers. Most of your bill is power so if you rack efficiency optimized servers you can have a lot of compute for very cheap. In terms of networking many offer no-headache solutions with some kind of transit blend. I recently had to switch away from hetzner du…

But when you are Colocating you have higher upfront costs as you need to acquire hardware and also need to have somebody nearby the datacenter for hardware swaps in case of a failure, no?

using decomissioned hardware saves you 90% of the costs and you usually colocate where you live or just have one of your tech friends help out :)

most datacenters do offer remote hands which is a bit pricey, but since they're only needed in emergencies in a redundant setup it is just not required.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#317

Post by rapind »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #16
lisperforlife wrote: post #11

I think you can get much farther with dedicated servers. I run a couple of nodes on Hetzner. The performance you get from a dedicated machine even if it is a 3 year old machine that you can get on server auction is absolutely bonkers and cannot be compared to VMs. The thing is that most of the server hardware is focused towards high core count, low clock speed processors that optimize for I/O rather than compute. It…

> . I know of OVH but I would love to know others in the same space. When I've needed dedicated servers in the US I've used Vultr in the past, relatively nice pricing, only missing unmetered bandwidth for it to be my go-to. But all those US-specific cases been others paying for it, so hasn't bothered me, compared to personal/community stuff I host at Hetzner and pay for myself.

I've been eying Vultr for dedicated metal in Canada (Toronto Datacenter). How do they measure up to Hertzner? I'm not looking to get the best possible deal, but just better value than EC2 (which costs me a fair amount of egress).

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#318

Post by tayo42 »

DisabledVeteran wrote: post #288
realitysballs wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

That used to be the case until recently. As much as neither I nor you want to admit it -- the truth is ChatGPT can handle 99% of what you would pay for "a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch." Infact, ChatGPT surpasses them as it is all encompassing. Any company now can simply pay for OpenAI's services and save the majority of the money they would have spent on the,…

You have a link to some proof that chat gpt is patching servers running databases with no down time or data loss?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#319

Post by trenchpilgrim »

odie5533 wrote: post #266
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

Complexity? I've never set up a highly available Postgres and Redis cluster on dedicated hardware, but I can not imagine it's easier than doing it in AWS which is only a few clicks and I don't have to worry about OS upgrades and patches. Or a highly available load balancer with infinite scale.

If you were personally paying the bill, you'd probably choose the self host on cost alone. Deploying a DB with HA and offsite backups is not hard at all.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#320

Post by exe34 »

adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

I love that you're not just preaching - you're offering the service at a lower cost. (I'm not affiliated and don't claim anything about their ability/reliability).
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