Earlier quoted context omitted.
that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone else from trying. what's different about your idea?
Trying to save up for better housing. I just can’t justify a data center in my budget.
You are the scariest monster in the woods
311–320 of 405 posts
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#312There's this weird disconnect in tech circles, where everyone is deathly afraid of AGI, but totally asleep on the very real possibility of thermonuclear war breaking out in Europe or Asia over the next 10 years. There's already credible evidence that we came perilously close to the use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine which likely would've spiraled out of control. AGI might happen, but the threat of nuclear war…
Do you want to share any of this credible evidence?
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#313Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you make a lot of assumptions that you should perhaps reexamine. > Human cognition was basically bruteforced by evolution-- why would it be impossible to achieve the exact same result in silicon, especially after we already demonstrated some parts of those results (e.g. use of language) that critically set us apart from other animals? Here are some of your assumptions: 1. Human intelligence is entirely explic…
I'm just assuming materialism, and that assumption is basically for complete lack of convincing alternatives (to me). With "agency" I just mean the ability to affect the physical world (not some abstract internal property). Regarding "computers have no concepts of things": I'm happy with the "meaning" of something being a fuzzy cloud in some high dimensional space, and consider this plausible/workable both for our mi…
Otherwise...
> I'm just assuming materialism, and that assumption is basically for complete lack of convincing alternatives (to me).
What do you mean by "materialism"? Materialism has a precise meaning in metaphysics (briefly, it is the res extensa part of Cartesian dualism with the res cogitans lopped off). This brand of materialism is notorious for being a nonstarter. The problem of qualia is a big one here. Indeed, all of what Cartesian dualism attributes to res cogitans must now be accounted for by res extensa, which is impossible by definition. Materialism, as a metaphysical theory, is stillborn. It can't even explain color (or as a Cartesian dualism would say, the experience of color).
Others use "materialism" to mean "that which physics studies". But this is circular. What is matter? Where does it begin and end? And if there is matter, what is not matter? Are you simply defining everything to be matter? So if you don't know what matter is, it's a bit odd to put a stake in "matter", as it could very well be made to mean anything, including something that includes the very phenomenon you seek to explain. This is a semantic game, not science.
Assuming something is not interesting. What's interesting is explaining how those assumptions can account for some phenomenon, and we have very good reasons for thinking otherwise.
> With "agency" I just mean the ability to affect the physical world (not some abstract internal property).
Then you've rendered it meaningless. According to that definition, nearly anything physical can be said to have agency. This is silly equivocation.
> Regarding "computers have no concepts of things": I'm happy with the "meaning" of something being a fuzzy cloud in some high dimensional space, and consider this plausible/workable both for our minds and current LLMs.
This is total gibberish. We're not talking about how we might represent or model aspects of a concepts in some vector space for some specific purpose or other. That isn't semantic content. You can't sweep the thing you have to explain under the rug and then claim to have accounted for it by presenting a counterfeit.
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
Has anyone else noticed that HN is starting to sound a lot like reddit / discussion of similar quality? Can't hang out anywhere now on the web... I used to be on here daily but with garbage like this its been reduced to 2-3 times per month... sad
you could quote people saying this every month for the last ten+ years
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#316I struggle to understand how people can just dismiss the possibility of artificial intelligence. Human cognition was basically bruteforced by evolution-- why would it be impossible to achieve the exact same result in silicon, especially after we already demonstrated some parts of those results (e.g. use of language) that critically set us apart from other animals? I'm not buying the whole "AI has no agency" line eith…
Unless and until "AGI" becomes an entirely self-hosted phenomenon, you are still observing human agency. That which designed, built, trained, the AI and then delegated the decision in the first place. You cannot escape this fact. If profit could be made by shaking a magic 8-ball and then doing whatever it says, you wouldn't say the 8-ball has agency.
Right now it's a machine that produces outputs that resemble things humans make. When we're not using it, it's like any other program you're not running. It doesn't exist in its own right, we just anthropomorphize it because of the way conventional language works. If an LLM someday initiates contact on its own without anyone telling it to, I will be amazed. But there's no reason to think that will happen.
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give an example of something that would be substantially different under your definition?
But that's the point: there isn't anything substantially different within the scope of computation. If you are given a set of LEGOs and all you can do is snap the pieces together, then there's nothing other than snapping pieces together that you can do. Adding more of the same LEGOs bricks to the set doesn't change the game. It only changes how large the structures you build can be, but scale isn't some kind of magic…
Re: You are the scariest monster in the woods
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gonna grab those, thanks for the recommendation. If you are interested in the opposite point of view, I can really recommend "Vehicles: Experiments in Synthetic Psychology" by V. Braitenberg. Basically builds up to "consciousness as emergent property" in small steps.
Thanks, I will have a read of that. The strongest I've seen before on the opposing view to Penrose was Daniel Dennett.
... No wonder Penrose has his doubts about the algorithmic nature of natural selection. If it were, truly, just an algorithmic process at all levels, all its products should be algorithmic as well. So far as I can see, this isn't an inescapable formal contradiction; Penrose could just shrug and propose that the universe contains these basic nuggets of nonalgorithmic power, not themselves created by natural selection in any of its guises, but incorporatable by algorithmic devices as found objects whenever they are encountered (like the oracles on the toadstools). Those would be truly nonreducible skyhooks.
Skyhook is Dennett's term for an appeal to the supernatural.