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The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

wastedwind.energy

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Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#311

Post by port11 »

justincormack wrote: post #216
grues-dinner wrote: post #30

Something like 400,000 people are opposing the Norwich-Tilbury power lines to bring wind energy to where it's used. Including a Green Party MP: https://www.dissmercury.co.uk/news/24840985.green-mp-adrian-... . And you'd better believe wherever they buried the lines they'd have objections and expensive consultations about the disruption and the HoUsE VaLuEs caused by trenching, drilling and service structures. Like th…

The Green Party around there picked up a lot of ex Conservative votes and oppose the nuclear plant at Sizewell and pylons for renewables. Its a weird alliance.

Eh, it explains their performance EU-wide: combine the worst of both worlds.

I've mostly voted Green all my life but for the last 5 or so years I remain satisfied at their losses, as they're somehow unable to understand why people are moving away.

(My comment's a little bitter, but I do hope they figure this one out.)

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#312

Post by ErikCorry »

amiga386 wrote: post #303
ErikCorry wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to blame project mismanagement, when it was always well known that undersea cables are much more expensive and difficult than the on-land cables that the Nimbies scuppered. And it's unsurprising that windfarms in Scotland keep getting planned when the operator can collect these payments while switching off their turbines to reduce wear and tear.

EGL2 was proposed in 2015 and was meant to be operational by 2023. It wasn't even approved until August 2024. Construction began a month later. EGL1 has already suffered a 16 month delay thanks to its constructors: https://www.offshore-energy.biz/supply-chain-constraints-pus... > The partners attribute the delay to market conditions, supplier withdrawals, and a delayed final offer from an unnamed supplier, asserting…

If EGL2 took 9 years to get approval, that's the fault of the Nimbies, right?

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#313

Post by dollylambda »

jcattle wrote: post #167
dollylambda wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to run it 24/7 to make a profit because the energy is essentially free or stranded, therefore the only cost is that of the equipment. I think the amount here is more than enough to pay for a few SHA256 specific CPUs attached.

That would work if the energy was actually free. Instead, since it is a single market, as soon as curtailment kicks in you do not get the energy for free anymore, you get it for the price you pay for the gas plants that replace the wind generation which can't be transmitted. This also doesn't change if you consume all the energy at the place where it is produced, since you still need to supplement the normal load wit…

Why not just turn off the mining equipment when curtailment kicks in, and flip it back on again when there is excess?

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#314

Post by amiga386 »

ErikCorry wrote: post #312
amiga386 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EGL2 was proposed in 2015 and was meant to be operational by 2023. It wasn't even approved until August 2024. Construction began a month later. EGL1 has already suffered a 16 month delay thanks to its constructors: https://www.offshore-energy.biz/supply-chain-constraints-pus... > The partners attribute the delay to market conditions, supplier withdrawals, and a delayed final offer from an unnamed supplier, asserting…

If EGL2 took 9 years to get approval, that's the fault of the Nimbies, right?

The project was proposed in 2015 but it didn't seriously start until 2020. That's purely politics.

I'd say the lion's share of time was spent seeking planning permission, writing environmental impact documents, planning the route, building the justification for any compulsory purchases, consulting with interest parties, etc. Some of that would be NIMBYs, but I don't think there was a sustained campaign to hold back EGL2, it just took a lot of bureaucracy, and effectively "death by a thousand cuts". A project gets to be 5 years late one day at a time.

See the timeline and some of the documents here: https://www.easterngreenlink2.co.uk/project-to-date

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#315

Post by GuB-42 »

mixedbit wrote: post #32

I wonder how practical it would be to build a system that would let home appliances cheaply overuse energy when there is a peak in wind or solar production. For example: * Let heat-pumps heat homes to say 23C instead of 20C * Let freezers decrease the temperature to say -30C instead of -18C * Let electric water heaters heat water to say 70C instead of 50C, such water can then be mixed with more cold water Such overus…

Smart thermostats and water heaters can to that to some extent. Heat or cool the room a little more and run the water heater when electricity is cheap, so that they don't have to run when it is expensive. Of course, electricity price matches supply and demand.

Other options could be delayed start for large appliances like washing machines and charging electric vehicles. EVs have even been proposed as a distributed battery system to smooth out electricity use.

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#316

Post by infthi »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #239
mapt wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a rational reason to do that?

The idea behind it is that everyone who supplies energy gets paid the same E.g. it would be unfair to pay wind farms 10p/kWh and gas turbines 20p/kWh when the electricity they supply is the same and fungible If there was enough grid storage this wouldn't be an issue, but because there isn't, there are always times where we need gas turbines to top up and those turbines won't turn on for less than it costs them, which…

>it would be unfair to pay wind farms 10p/kWh and gas turbines 20p/kWh when the electricity they supply is the same and fungible It is not the same, supply from gas turbines is more flexible/predictable, this might be worth an extra premium.

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#317

Post by amiga386 »

vidarh wrote: post #211
bee_rider wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why somebody doesn’t open a datacenter in Scotland. Sounds like they have too much power… also it is a bit chilly, right?

What makes you think they haven't? At least half a dozen operators have more than one data centre in Scotland, and many more have one.

According to an article today, there are 16 data centres in Scotland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77zxx43x4vo

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#318

Post by ratherbefuddled »

Angostura wrote: post #156
ratherbefuddled wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just had solar and a battery fitted by Octopus I'm interested - would you mind sharing what you use for automation here please?

Sure, I use Home Assistant running in a little raspberry pie in the lift. There is an Octopus Integration that exposes current prices (and much else) to HomeAssistant. There is another Integration that works with my solar panels and another that works with my batteries and can change mode (self use, force charge, force discharge etc.) So from there it’s really just a question of setting up some if-then automations to…

Thank you, that's really useful.

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#319

Post by ratherbefuddled »

jon_adler wrote: post #171
ratherbefuddled wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just had solar and a battery fitted by Octopus I'm interested - would you mind sharing what you use for automation here please?

Not op but may I suggest looking at Home Assistant, Octopus Energy Addin and Predbat: https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/energy-rates/

Thanks very much.

Re: The cost of turning down wind turbines in Britain

#320

Post by Joel_Mckay »

aembleton wrote: post #205
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #92

Could use an opportunistic energy load-dump like a desalination plant... Singapore had a similar situation with fresh water shortages, and had excessive waste-methane energy from Oil refineries. It eventually became a net exporter of fresh water at a profit no less. Fresh water is also easy to store off-peak hours, and distribute using existing infrastructure. Additionally, large factory Rotary-Power-Conditioners can…

Or start creating eFuel which is very energy intensive but might become necessary for aircraft.

That was tried in the late 20th century in places under oil embargo, and it failed to scale up for several reasons.

Generally, bio-fuels proved more practical using fermented alcohols or fat transesterification into B100. A genetic engineering solution for salt-water tolerant fuel crops or microbes is highly probable.

If I recall correctly, methanol powered vehicles would get significantly lower mileage per tank of fuel, and tended to damage petrol engines. =3

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