Ryanair: Cutting cost at all cost
Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
311–320 of 586 posts
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#312> the Boeing 737-800 had just 220kg of fuel left in its tanks... enough for just five or six minutes of flying Maybe I'm just unaware, but it's crazy to me that these planes burn 40 kilograms of jet fuel per minute.
Each of the four F1 engines on the Saturn V burned 1.8 metric tonnes of liquid oxygen and 0.8 tonnes of rocket fuel every second.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
I absolutely love insights like this into areas of the world I have no knowledge. Makes absolute sense in the modern world but also something I'd not think about
Trucking companies started adding this to their logistics about a decade ago as well. Once they had accurate fuel price information for most of the country they started telling their drivers precisely how much fuel to onboard at each stop.
Yeah makes sense. Similar to my electric car now I think about it. Optimises charges based on capacity and price.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends if our goal is to have zero aircraft crashes. If the goal is zero, then for any given parameter, you have to define a margin of safety well before crash territory and treat breaching that margin as seriously as if there had been a crash. Similarly planes are kept 5 nautical miles apart horizontally, and if they get closer than that, you guessed it - investigation. Ofc planes could come within inches and every…
We shouldn't aim for 0 crashes due to low fuel though. How many deaths does carrying around 3x fuel than what you reasonably need contribute to via extra pollution? We should aim for 1 every 10-100 years or something reasonable like that.
We should account for deaths from pollution, but if we are going to do that, we should be willing to do that for 99% of aviation fuel that has nothing to do with reserves & safety margins, in addition to fuel used to drive cars.
Any regulation short of "carry infinite fuel" will be a trade-off, and entail some risk and anyone involved in setting these knows that. Zero may not be our actual target or even possible, but it is a useful aspiration to ensure that everyone is pulling in the right direction.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#315Under FAA rules this was a screwup. [edit: see my own reply] (However, the rules are subtle, so they can be partially forgiven.) However, I'm not only a dispatcher but also a philosophy BA, so I've found a good way to explain it. Your reserve fuel (the "extra" fuel over what the actual flight burn) can of course be used (hello, that's what it's there for) but—and here's the rub—you can never plan on using it. That is…
"Under FAA rules this was a screwup."
Not necessarily. And I get that you've caveated yourself with an edit and a reply etc, but lets assume that you're not hedging for the moment.
They carried required reserves on departure. Multiple approaches thwarted by extreme unforseen weather. They declared Mayday Fuel, which is mandatory under EASA regulations, when reserve fuel use became unnavoidable. They diverted to the nearest suitable airport.
Landing with 220kg is close, but within bounds of a declared fuel emergency.
Crew decision to declare Mayday and divert was proper airmanship, not negligence.
Yes, reserve fuel may not be planned for. But it may be used. It's there for a reason. Your accusation doesn't account for dynamic evolving weather and realtime decision making.
I'm an instrument rated pilot and an advanced ground instructor under FAA and I fly IMC in bad weather as single pilot IFR around the pacific northwest and colorado.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aircraft that are designed as gliders are much lighter and thus have much longer glide range than aircraft that aren't. They're so lightweight that they can climb on thermals. A 737 is not going to be able to do that, but a regular glider can't fly at 400 knots.
> thus have much longer glide range Im gonna be a little pedantic, but the weight has surprisingly small effect on glide range, actually none of the weight affect the range directly, its all from secondary effects. The glide is given mainly by drag and lift (so body and wing geometry), correlated to certain speed. The weight isnt in the equation at all. What weight does, is increases the speed in which the aircraft a…
You are, of course, correct, and thanks for clarifying.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#317Under FAA rules this was a screwup. [edit: see my own reply] (However, the rules are subtle, so they can be partially forgiven.) However, I'm not only a dispatcher but also a philosophy BA, so I've found a good way to explain it. Your reserve fuel (the "extra" fuel over what the actual flight burn) can of course be used (hello, that's what it's there for) but—and here's the rub—you can never plan on using it. That is…
If you're into your reserves you should declare an emergency immediately to get priority in air traffic sequencing and control. Pilots may be organizationally disincentivized when making this decision.
It's required when using your reserve under EASA to declare Mayday Fuel.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#318Under FAA rules this was a screwup. [edit: see my own reply] (However, the rules are subtle, so they can be partially forgiven.) However, I'm not only a dispatcher but also a philosophy BA, so I've found a good way to explain it. Your reserve fuel (the "extra" fuel over what the actual flight burn) can of course be used (hello, that's what it's there for) but—and here's the rub—you can never plan on using it. That is…
"Under FAA rules this was a screwup." Not necessarily. And I get that you've caveated yourself with an edit and a reply etc, but lets assume that you're not hedging for the moment. They carried required reserves on departure. Multiple approaches thwarted by extreme unforseen weather. They declared Mayday Fuel, which is mandatory under EASA regulations, when reserve fuel use became unnavoidable. They diverted to the n…
This is the right answer.
Was this good/bad? Idk Room for improvement? Maybe? Clearer direction with the benefit of hindsight? Maybe. but the majority of the sentiment in the responses is coming from people not type rated in a 737.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#319United Airlines Flight 173 ran out of fuel while circling Portland International Airport trying to troubleshoot a landing gear. Six more minutes of fuel could have helped the airliner to land in the Columbia river by the airport or belly land on the runway. The captain chose to keep troubleshooting and crashed just 6 miles away from the airport.
Re: Ryanair flight landed at Manchester airport with six minutes of fuel left
#320For anyone interested, here is the flight playback: https://fr24.com/data/flights/fr3418#3c7f91f4
Sub required.
I can wait for the Pete the Irish Pilot’s take though.