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Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

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Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#311

Post by freejazz »

Veedrac wrote: post #271
Aldipower wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still totally miss the point of this thread. Making music and creating art for the sake of enjoyment. Consumer preferences are irrelevant here. I am totally fine if you like AI music. And I am sure someone can create art by interweaving AI elements. And keep in mind, the training data for Suno is coming/gets stolen from someone like me who creates real music. Personally I do not enjoy to make music with some prop…

I think moritzwarhier's replies are highlighting that I didn't miss the point. Maybe I expressed it badly.

I think they are highlighting that you did miss the point

>Intent is not a lofty concept, it's at the heart of what art is.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#312

Post by moritzwarhier »

Veedrac wrote: post #289
moritzwarhier wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also having Spotify in mind when writing about algorithmic curation and GenAI in music ;) Regarding this: > I'm saying I use AI generations for exactly the opposite — so that I can explore and listen to things that are more intellectually interesting in the ways I find intellectually interesting I just have not found any AI music that would satisfy this description. But I am very interested in failure modes of…

I've been avoiding trying to class what counts as 'interesting' because it feels like the wrong point to make, for a medium so entwined with personal preferences that are so often at odds with each other. To single out my tastes feels like it would be saying 'paleontology is the true interesting subject, unlike architecture'. The tracks you listed here aren't really my thing, but I can see why AI audio doesn't help w…

> I've been avoiding trying to class what counts as 'interesting' because it feels like the wrong point to make

Well, I kind of borrowed this wording from the description of your genAI experiences ("intellectually interesting").

I feel that it's nod a bad word to describe qualities of music, although it's a bit nondescript. Sure, music can be interesting, but still unpleasant etc.

But "interesting" means (to me) that the music makes you want to listen to it again.

Music doesn't need to sound pleasant. Or angry. Or sad. Or "abstract" (an oxymoron when it comes to describing a sound, still widely used).

Music is communication.

And just like it's a novelty and sometimes useful or entertaining to use ChatGPT, it's a novelty and sometimes interesting to use Suno.

That's pretty much it for me.

The magic of prompt => non-text media is also interesting, sure.

But not interesting anymore to me as art, at least not without being part of a bigger whole.

Good early example for this would be "Headache - The head hurts, but the heart knows the truth"

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#313

Post by protocolture »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #307
protocolture wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The output of the radio knob has far less opportunity to create an original work.

Literally nothing the AI outputs is an original work.

That's a testable hypothesis. Go sample every AI output until you find one that doesn't have a previously created 1:1 analogue.

Unless of course you mean "original" as in, some kind of wishy washy untargetable goal that's really some appeal to humanity, where any piece of information that disagrees with your hypothesis is discarded because it is unfalsifiable. Original might as well mean "Made by a human and that's it" which isn't useful at all.

Whereas I use it to mean new or different.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#314

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

protocolture wrote: post #313
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally nothing the AI outputs is an original work.

That's a testable hypothesis. Go sample every AI output until you find one that doesn't have a previously created 1:1 analogue. Unless of course you mean "original" as in, some kind of wishy washy untargetable goal that's really some appeal to humanity, where any piece of information that disagrees with your hypothesis is discarded because it is unfalsifiable. Original might as well mean "Made by a human and that's i…

> Whereas I use it to mean new or different.

Literally nothing AI outputs is new or different.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#315

Post by Veedrac »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #312
Veedrac wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been avoiding trying to class what counts as 'interesting' because it feels like the wrong point to make, for a medium so entwined with personal preferences that are so often at odds with each other. To single out my tastes feels like it would be saying 'paleontology is the true interesting subject, unlike architecture'. The tracks you listed here aren't really my thing, but I can see why AI audio doesn't help w…

> I've been avoiding trying to class what counts as 'interesting' because it feels like the wrong point to make Well, I kind of borrowed this wording from the description of your genAI experiences ("intellectually interesting"). I feel that it's nod a bad word to describe qualities of music, although it's a bit nondescript. Sure, music can be interesting, but still unpleasant etc. But "interesting" means (to me) that…

I frequently find myself hitting repeat. I have over a dozen I've listened to, according to the stats, more than 50 times each. By your definition that's interesting. QED?

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#316

Post by I-M-S »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #314
protocolture wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a testable hypothesis. Go sample every AI output until you find one that doesn't have a previously created 1:1 analogue. Unless of course you mean "original" as in, some kind of wishy washy untargetable goal that's really some appeal to humanity, where any piece of information that disagrees with your hypothesis is discarded because it is unfalsifiable. Original might as well mean "Made by a human and that's i…

> Whereas I use it to mean new or different. Literally nothing AI outputs is new or different.

That's like saying nothing that comes out of people's mouths is new or different because it's all been uttered before.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#317

Post by survirtual »

j4coh wrote: post #182
survirtual wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping money into a company until desired results is not "building a company". I have nothing against capital, but the hubris of the people investing is insane. /s Look, sarcasm aside, for you and the many people who agree with you, I would encourage opening your minds a bit. There was a time where even eating food was an intense struggle of intellect, skill, and patience. Now you walk into a building and grab anyth…

It doesn’t even have to be art. If someone told me they were a chef and cooked some food but in reality had ordered it I’d think they were a bit of a moron for equating these things or thinking that by giving someone money or a request for something they were a creator, not a consumer. It may be nice for society that ordering food is possible, but it doesn’t make one a chef to have done so.

In ordering a meal from someone else who makes it, I think that the relationship is rather well defined. One person is asking another person to use their skills to make a meal.

With AI, there is a vision and there is a tool executing it. This has a recursive loop involving articulation, refinement, repetition. It is one person using a tool to get a result. At a minimum, it is characteristically different than your comparison, no?

To add, my original statement was concerning going into a grocery store and buying ingredients. That was once a much more difficult process.

As an aside it reminds me of a food cart I would go to regularly in Portland. Sometimes the chefs would go mushroom foraging and cook a lunch using those fresh mushrooms. It was divine. If we ever reach a time when I can send a robot out to forage for mushrooms and actually survive the meal, I would celebrate that occasion, because it would mean we all made it through some troubling times.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#318

Post by survirtual »

samdafi wrote: post #225
j4coh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t even have to be art. If someone told me they were a chef and cooked some food but in reality had ordered it I’d think they were a bit of a moron for equating these things or thinking that by giving someone money or a request for something they were a creator, not a consumer. It may be nice for society that ordering food is possible, but it doesn’t make one a chef to have done so.

I enjoy this take. Funding something is not the same as creating it. The Medicis were not artists, Michelangelo, Botticelli, Raphael, etc were. You might not be a creator, but you could make an argument for being an executive producer. But then, if working with an artist is reduced to talking at a computer, people seem to forget that whatever output they get is equally obtainable to everyone and therefore immediately…

Michelangelo had apprentices and assistants, many of which did a significant portion of the work. You could model him as the executive artist, directing the vision. Is this so different from prompting? Whose name is attached to all those works?

I will say Michelangelo was particularly controlling and distrusting of assistants, and uniquely did more work than other master artists of the time, but the point remains. The vision has always been the value.

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