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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#311

Post by palata »

jimbo808 wrote: post #272
palata wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

Anyone using a mobile device for CSAM is in prison by now.

Predators use mainstream social media to enter in contact with children.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#312

Post by palata »

kypro wrote: post #265
palata wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

You're all assuming that predators who are already deliberating using apps which are encrypted to share CSAM won't just move to something else where there is encryption – which will always be possible unless the EU fines a way to ban maths or reverts back to the pre-digital age. This might catch the odd moron sharing stuff on Facebook or on their phone, but I doubt it will stop the average offender was is already goi…

> but I doubt it will stop the average offender

I strongly believe it will catch the average offender. The average human doesn't have a clue about cryptography.

It won't catch all of them, of course. My point is that it is invalid to say that it won't catch anyone.

> but at what cost?

EXACTLY! The problem is that whoever controls the list of illegal material can abuse it. We fundamentally cannot audit the list because the material on this list is highly illegal. There is a risk of abuse.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#314

Post by palata »

buildbot wrote: post #276
palata wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few decades ago, all communications were unencrypted. Would you say that democracies did not exist then?

This is completely untrue! Important communications have always been enciphered since language has been created I’d wager, whether that cipher is specific terms (grog means attack that person in 10 seconds!) or a book cipher, e.i. The first letter of a bible verse than the second letter of the next verse etc. Humans have been encrypting communication since communication was possible. It is now only recently possible…

> Humans have been encrypting communication since communication was possible.

Were most people encrypting their handwritten letters? Were most people encrypting their messages before sending them by SMS or with WhatsApp? Really?

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#315

Post by nickslaughter02 »

txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

> you will gradually lose control of your government

That happened the moment European countries surrendered their sovereignty to EU.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#316

Post by palata »

buellerbueller wrote: post #308
palata wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few decades ago, all communications were unencrypted. Would you say that democracies did not exist then?

A few decades ago, few communications were tracked. When everything is tracked (as it is now), the only way to have privacy is with encryption.

Snowden said otherwise, more than a decade ago.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#317

Post by Saline9515 »

alkonaut wrote: post #305
blindriver wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with csam and arguing that point is on purpose, to distract people and the politicians can say “xp84 supports child pornography!” It has everything to do with censorship and complete control over people’s ability to communicate. Politicians hate free speech and they want to control their citizens completely including their thoughts. This is true evil.

But politicians are - in general - neither evil, nor do they have any real incentive to ”control citizens’ thoughts”. It doesn’t make sense. They can be gullible. Non-Technical. Owned by lobbyists. Under pressure to deliver on the apparent problem of the day (csam, terror, whatever). But I don’t think there is a general crusade against privacy. That’s why I think it’s so infuriating: I’m sure it’s not even deliberate…

If they are "just doing their job" why are they asking for an exemption that would apply only to them? No, they firmly believe that safety should be gained at the cost of privacy.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#318

Post by palata »

miroljub wrote: post #270
palata wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

It was unencrypted and “it was fine“ because it was technically nearly impossible to store and process all communications. Now, one small server cluster can analyse all communication channels in a country in real time. The only thing stopping it is the encryption.

Ok, but with ChatControl, you still send your messages encrypted. They are scanned on your device.

So all communications aren't stored outside of your device, right?

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#319

Post by xp84 »

palata wrote: post #298
blindriver wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I deny that. What proof is there that peddlers of child pornography are using chat to distribute CSAM? What proof is there that they won’t simply move to another undocumented form of distribution once this is implemented, leaving the criminals unmonitored but every law-abiding citizen monitored?

> What proof is there that peddlers of child pornography are using chat to distribute CSAM? Are you kidding me? How do you think predators get in contact with children? Over social media that children use, obviously. And of course many criminals use chat. Most have no clue about encryption, like the vast majority of humans.

> How do you think predators get in contact with children?

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the vast, vast majority of the perpetrators of these offenses are either family members, or known and trusted people to the family, such as the friends of an older sibling, friends of parents, stepparents, teachers, priests, etc. The bogeyman of the evil stranger paedo lurking on social media cold-calling random kids is an edge case.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#320

Post by Saline9515 »

palata wrote: post #248
blindriver wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with csam and arguing that point is on purpose, to distract people and the politicians can say “xp84 supports child pornography!” It has everything to do with censorship and complete control over people’s ability to communicate. Politicians hate free speech and they want to control their citizens completely including their thoughts. This is true evil.

[flagged]

Criminals are reactive. If you add a CCTV where drug dealing happens, sellers and buyers will go to another place. In the end, nothing changes.
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