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Nine things I learned in ninety years

edwardpackard.com

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Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#311

Post by bluGill »

fpsvogel wrote: post #287
bluGill wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but a few of those poor kids see the claim change their life instead of following their parents examples and those kids tend to do well. We see this most in immigrants where the parents come with nothing and barely get by but their kids despite going to the same bad schools do well

Adsolutely. I agree that our lives aren't determined by family background, and we can draw on many other resources, both within ourselves and from other people besides family. If I overstated my point, it's only because I was pushing back against the idea that education, employment, and a traditional family are equally attainable by all, and if someone has failed in any of these areas, it's because they lack virtue c…

Education, employment, and traditional family are useful things to work with though. They give a direction to try to get the poor to go. We can ask questions on how we can get their kids to go to school and study. We can ask questions about how we can get them acceptable jobs. We can ask how we can get them into stable family situations. We will fail a lot, but it gives us a proven framework to work towards. Yes there are problems - I'm not advocating live with a spouse who abuses you - but we can ask how we can stop that abuse as well.

Now there are many traditions around the world that works. Most cultures have man+women=family (as opposed to some form of polygamy), and there is reason to suspect this is important even if it isn't "in" to study why. (it isn't clear which non-traditional forms also would be fine and which would be a disaster)

Saying "poor are poor because they deserve it" is an accusation that I hear a lot more than I hear people who believe it. Some do believe it, but most accused of it do not and have better explinations of why they do things that the accusers don't like.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#312

Post by dasil003 »

unfitted2545 wrote: post #290
altacc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson There's lots of similar quotes throughout time, all about what you say in your list line: to be lucky you need to create as many opportunities as possible to get lucky. You can't win at dice if you never roll them.

He sure was lucky to be white. Do you think he could have rolled the dice if he was shackled up?

What a cynical and dismissive take, of no value to anyone.

Are you saying that no one of color in that era made any worthwhile contribution to the world? Or are you saying that every white person of the era should hold themselves to the standard of achievement of Thomas Jefferson since that is the power of the privilege they held?

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#314

Post by lesuorac »

seandoe wrote: post #309
larsnystrom wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, many things attributed to chance are actually the aggregate effect of other people's choices. If we make choices based on not just what's best for ourselves but what's best for all of us, we will all suddenly become more "lucky". And vice versa, if we only think about ourselves that luck will diminish.

I was thinking something very similar as I read the letter and hear people talk about luck in a similar way. I think attributing things to luck, while seemingly humble, can be dismissive and/or simplistic. Yes, we're all lucky to be in our situations -- living in this time, fed, privileged. Though, whether this luck is experienced positively or not is entirely subjective. Also, to ascribe our given situation to luck…

I prefer the word opportunity in a lot of those situations.

Sure there's luck in whether or not you get an opportunity but spending the whole day on twitter complaining about _ isn't going to give you any ....

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#315

Post by lotsofpulp »

dasil003 wrote: post #312
unfitted2545 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He sure was lucky to be white. Do you think he could have rolled the dice if he was shackled up?

What a cynical and dismissive take, of no value to anyone. Are you saying that no one of color in that era made any worthwhile contribution to the world? Or are you saying that every white person of the era should hold themselves to the standard of achievement of Thomas Jefferson since that is the power of the privilege they held?

I can see it being reasonable to assume the ROI of hard work while in shackles to be insufficient. Well, at least hard work that does not involve getting violent against the shacklers.

For example, would slave women have done the hard work of having and raising slave children if they had the agency to not have them?

Would you work hard at doing something that doesn't scale if you know the federal government will simply reduce the purchasing power of your earnings to maintain asset owners' position in society?

Does it make sense to work hard if there is a high likelihood you will never own land, and hence will always have increasing portions of your winnings taken by a rent seeker? Seems like a bad trade.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#316

Post by bdangubic »

mfro wrote: post #289
bdangubic wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we make choices based on not just what's best for ourselves but what's best for all of us, we will all suddenly become more "lucky". I personally know handful of extremely lucky people who spent their entire lives doing the exact opposite of this

The point is not that individual luck plays no part. It's about what your environment offers you as a baseline, not accounting for individual luck.

I don’t disagree but there is also an immense impact of random, pure luck outside of any environment that plays a huge part in many lives

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#317

Post by eastbound »

seandoe wrote: post #309
larsnystrom wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, many things attributed to chance are actually the aggregate effect of other people's choices. If we make choices based on not just what's best for ourselves but what's best for all of us, we will all suddenly become more "lucky". And vice versa, if we only think about ourselves that luck will diminish.

I was thinking something very similar as I read the letter and hear people talk about luck in a similar way. I think attributing things to luck, while seemingly humble, can be dismissive and/or simplistic. Yes, we're all lucky to be in our situations -- living in this time, fed, privileged. Though, whether this luck is experienced positively or not is entirely subjective. Also, to ascribe our given situation to luck…

I was searching for what to answer people who attribute everything I’ve done to luck. There’s the classic “It’s strange because the more I work the more I’m lucky”, but that’s very condescending. Thank you for offering me a positive alternative. In a sense it makes me owe work to my society.

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#318

Post by bluecalm »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #219
ant6n wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If life is decided by coin flips, you need to maximize the number of coin flips.

Depends on what happens if you lose the flip. If it's zero, vs a payout if you win, sure, maximize the number of flips. But take, for example, smoking. You're flipping where the best outcome is zero, and the worst is cancer. Minimize the number of those flips.

There are many positively skewed coin flips as well which we don't take because of various biases, fears, habits or our upbringing. I like a quote from Magnus Carlsen (the chess player): "The correct mindset in chess is somewhere between optimist and delusional". I think it applies to life as well.

I am naturally pessimistic I think I lost a lot of opportunities because of it. Thankfully I also get those periods where I am blindly all-in on something. Some of those made me very good at useless things but some resulted in very good opportunities and then outcomes.

Energetic optimists who avoid very dumb choices do very well in life in my experience. People who talk about luck a lot usually can't produce a decently long list of things they tried or keep making blunders (smoking, alcohol, associating with destructive and apathetic people).

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#319

Post by spacebuffer »

elmomle wrote: post #275
spacebuffer wrote: post #265

> 3) to consider what others may be thinking and feeling Personally I find myself often considering how other people might feel too much and end up being a people pleaser, so I need to work on that aspect of my social skills

It's really essential that one have (1) down (to be self-constituted) down in order for (3) not to lead to a circle of confusion. If I feel very assured in my own relationship with the universe, that doesn't depend on how anybody else sees me, and my security does not depend on others being happy with me. And when I don't need to make anybody happy, connection and compassion arise naturally from a place of curiosity-…

Any particular books you recommend? people keep mentioning _how to win friends and influence people_ and I am not sure if it's just mindless productivity gurus hype

Re: Nine things I learned in ninety years

#320

Post by programmertote »

I'm approaching mid-forties. As a former Buddhist (up to like the age of 13) turned atheist, I find all the points the author shared in this PDF agreeable.

Being self-reliant (being able to find happiness even when alone); being self-aware; being aware of others (including others' feelings, motives, perspectives); focusing on the journey; acknowledging that 'luck' has a non-negligible role in one's life; preparing our minds for inevitable death with calm acceptance; so many things the author's view resounded with in my opinion and experience.

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