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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

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Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#311

Post by mmis1000 »

alpinisme wrote: post #233
ricardobeat wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the cost is an extra few milliseconds of render time and few extra hours of dev time That is very optimistic. Most React projects never get to the optimization stage, and end up with seconds of rendering and transition delays that significantly harm UX. And the amount of time spent battling hooks, re-renders, compatibility issues, etc amounts to hundreds of hours over the course of a medium-sized project, thousa…

“Most” react apps needing “seconds” definitely needs some citation or evidence. Even in fairly heavy and laggy react apps, it’s still usually network latency, waterfall requests, ad/tracking bloatware, large asset sizes, and the usual old classics that cause perceptible slowness in my experience.

You probably never see what reddit like after it just get rewrite. https://www.reddit.com/r/bugs/comments/rj0u77/reddit_redesig...

I won't say most react apps performs like this. But it's what you will get if you ship a big react app without optimization at all.

Other framework mostly have a much saner default (for example, component without argument change does not re-render). So it will work well (not best though) even in large scale. But in react they are all opt-in.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#312

Post by bythreads »

squidsoup wrote: post #207
spankalee wrote: post #157

Web components are the way out of this trap. Every single framework that isn't React should be wholeheartedly supporting web components to make sure that they have access to a viable ecosystem of components and utilities without having to bootstrap an entire competitor to React and it's ecosystem. While a lot of people view web components as competitors to frameworks, they don't really have to be. The just define an…

Curious if has anyone had much success using web components within a react UI library? When building a component library on a bespoke design system, I'm quite pleased that I can rely on a headless library like RAC to ensure that the base component implementation is accessible and works well on touch devices. I can see theoretically that web components could be a complimentary tool, but in practice I'm not certain whe…

Did duetds.com

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#313

Post by bythreads »

rhet0rica wrote: post #298
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved my entire business off React and now I don’t have to worry about tinkerers at Meta deciding to reinvent React every 2 years and tricking everyone by keeping the name again and again. Web components are fantastic. They are the real future.

https://i.imgur.com/7ITZb7d.jpeg Aren't web components a pain in the ass to use?

Nope

Lit.dev

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#314

Post by kamaal »

_heimdall wrote: post #297
tshaddox wrote: post #87

This is mostly just a complaint about how good React is. It's so good that it's difficult for the technical benefits of alternatives to outweigh the social benefits of choosing React. Note that this is neither a major compliment to React's technical merits nor a criticism of React's competitors. In fact, I don't even disagree with the author on some of his claims, such as: > React is no longer winning by technical me…

I have been a part of quite a few tech stack decisions at various companies and startups. I have literally never heard an argument made for react that included merits of the framework itself. The decision was always based on a combination for familiarity, ability to hire for eng roles, and the ecosystem.

Im not sure how this is a negative merit for React.

Besides if you are a small company, or a start up, your job is to get things done. Not to embark on a global technology crusade to push your favourite tech.

By and large the best thing about react is the overall ecosystem, libraries, talent and ubiquitousness. And thats a good thing.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#315

Post by bythreads »

_heimdall wrote: post #296
spankalee wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that you can only pass strings as attributes This isn't true at all though. It's a lie started in the early days by React engineers that just won't die, unfortunately. Web components are objects and they can have properties and accessors like any object. The vast majority of declarative template systems like React, Lit, Vue, Angular, Svelte, Solid, etc., will declaratively set properties - which can carry…

That approach passes values in JS rather than the DOM, right? I read the go comment as talking specifically about DOM attributes which can only be strings (well, you can have boolean attributes as well). Web components can be passed objects in JS, but its news to me if that is available in HTML.

Neither can react

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#316

Post by netbioserror »

daveidol wrote: post #308
austin-cheney wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong disagree. Web Components are react in different clothing. You don’t need this component-based framework style architecture to write applications for the browser. I promise writing applications for the browsers is not challenging. You don’t need big frameworks or component madness that’s more of the same.

Sure you can make a blog without a framework. But for complex applications it’s far better/easier than raw DOM manipulation or rolling your own thing.

We should probably be making widget toolkits for the Canvas and using WebSockets for communication. DOM manipulation is a total hack-job. It's somewhat flexible, but the performance and dark-pattern cost is just too great. If you're making an interactive application, then treat it like an application and draw widgets to a canvas.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#317

Post by slmjkdbtl »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #309
slmjkdbtl wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on how they are run they are completely not just ordinary JavaScript functions, hook era components are also not just JavaScript functions, it's a very complicated system. React calling them "just functions" is untrue, just marketing buzz words, and it leads developers into traps.

Many functions can only be called in a certain context. Calling them "not functions" is misleading imo because it implies those functions are compiled out or something, like `$state()` in Svelte.

Yeah they themselves are functions but how they're called are managed by a complicated system, I think treating them as a separate new concept is less misleading than calling them plain functions

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#318

Post by brenainn »

bythreads wrote: post #313
rhet0rica wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://i.imgur.com/7ITZb7d.jpeg Aren't web components a pain in the ass to use?

Nope Lit.dev

I like lit. I'm not primarily a web developer and I've found it intuitive and easy to read and write. What I find more confusing than frameworks is building, bundling, ES modules, the whole NPM ecosystem.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#319

Post by christophilus »

netbioserror wrote: post #316
daveidol wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can make a blog without a framework. But for complex applications it’s far better/easier than raw DOM manipulation or rolling your own thing.

We should probably be making widget toolkits for the Canvas and using WebSockets for communication. DOM manipulation is a total hack-job. It's somewhat flexible, but the performance and dark-pattern cost is just too great. If you're making an interactive application, then treat it like an application and draw widgets to a canvas.

Accessibility suffers with that approach.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#320

Post by azemetre »

ern wrote: post #231
azemetre wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there? By 2016 it felt like nearly 80% of frontend development was happening in react. Even startups in central FL in 2015 were all in on react then. That's barely 4ish years from first introduction. That's quite fast in software adoption.

Angular was bigger than react until 2018/19-ish in the enterprisey places I worked at.

Definitely feels more geographically based then. I worked at Humana and Comcast, they were both on the react train by late 2015/2016. This was northeast area.
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