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Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#311

Post by akmarinov »

jaimex2 wrote: post #253
akmarinov wrote: post #210

So if you don’t look at the Cybertruck, which basically can’t be sold outside North America, they haven’t had a new vehicle in 5 years. If you look at the existing vehicles: - they no longer sell Model S and X in Europe and right hand markets - Model S has had one external visual change since it was introduced, Model X has never had one - the refreshed Model 3 and Y don’t really have any battery or charging improveme…

Sounds like they are all in on Robotaxi huh ;)

Do you mean Robotaxi or Cybercab?

Robotaxi is just Model Ys that have a FSD version that they let on to some cities. It’s again something that’ll never make it outside the US, even though the market there is big enough for it to be sustainable.

Cybercab is never coming out. It doesn’t make sense for it to exist and be sold to people.

200 mile range 2 seater? It mostly makes sense as a literal cab and if it’s going to be profitable for whoever buys it and lets it be a Robotaxi, there’s no point for Tesla to sell it, as they can just be the ones that take in that profit on every vehicle.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#312

Post by panick21_ »

bilsbie wrote: post #300
panick21_ wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he actually thinks is that autonomous vehicles would collapse the car market. That's why he things that. So literally he killed the affordable 'Model 2' because self driving would destroy 80% of the market and if that was true there wasn't demand. So he decided to only focus on 'RoboTaxi'.

I feel like this is an error in his thinking. People really want to own cars. That won’t change even if taxis are ubiquitous and cheap.

I disagree at least in the longer term, I don't think people want to own cars. Generally people are not car people, bike people or train people, most people just react to what makes the most sense.

In the 70s people in the Netherlands they were not 'bike people' but now that's what they look like.

Same in the US, most people are not car obsessed, they have simply been 'brainwashed' into a society where you 'need' a car. And therefore everybody says they want to own a car, because the idea of not having a car or not wanting a car is like hating Apple Pie and the American Way.

If you watch urbanist youtube, you will see the topic discussed, people who live their whole live in the subburbs don't even understand how people without a car get groceries. This is a common question that gets asked.

Yes, some people are 'car' people, just there are people on bikes, even when it is not very save. But that's going to be a small group of people, just as there is now for bikes in dangerous places. In a world where you don't need a car, and its cheaper to not have one, the waste majority of people will not adopt 'car' as a hobby.

That said, even optimistically if 'full self driving' happened, that would take decades. And the 'car' hobby in the US would survive a very long time, 100000000s of millions of garages and parking spot have already been built, millions of people have been educated on car repair and so on and so on. So I think even if full self driving was solved, the culture shit would take a generation.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#313

Post by jacquesm »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #304
hyperadvanced wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this described as “looksmaxxing for cars” and I can’t unsee it now.

it's effiencymaxxing. automotive looksmaxxing peaked in the 80s, the decade when new car designs looked the best

Citroen DS, Jaguar e-type, Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, MB Gullwing, BMW 507 and a whole raft of other 50's, 60's and 70's cars look much better than anything that I even remember designed in the 80's. Of course that's just my opinion, but those cars are so iconic, do you have any particular cars in mind for that period which you really liked?

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#314

Post by kube-system »

ajross wrote: post #301
metaphor wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the repairability thing is a meme from back when they had part production lag due to crazy scaling. Respectfully, bullshit; auto insurance companies I've dealt with certainly begged to differ, and have priced comprehensive/collision premiums for Teslas accordingly.

My premiums seem fine. Also I don't see why insurance risk management has anything in particular to do with "repairability".

Insurance premiums for Teslas are well above the national average for insuring a new vehicle. Although, they've gotten better in recent years. The Model S used to be number one most expensive vehicle to insure in the US, even beating out exotic cars.

Repairability is a risk to insurance companies because they are liable to repair vehicle vehicles. When parts and labor are in short supply, they are more expensive. These expenses are something that an insurance company would pay in a claim for a vehicle they are liable to fix. Also, please remember that insurance companies also sometimes must pay consequential costs, e.g. a rental car, while vehicle repair repairs are pending.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#315

Post by kube-system »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #164
hyperadvanced wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, Cybertruck is one of the only original car designs in modern memory. It’s dumb as hell, but I like it. That said, I have no idea who it’s for, I wouldn’t buy one. But I respect them for designing such a ridiculous vehicle, and for it actually being able to sell, albeit somewhat poorly compared to expectations. I say all of this as a recent $TSLA bear with a healthy short position.

It's original in the way that a toddler drawing a car in crayon on your wall is original.

Yes, and there used to be a time when other automakers did crazy stuff too. Sometimes they sold well and sometimes they didn't. But the variety and creativity was nicer than what we have currently on the market, which is a bunch of midsize SUVs, which aren't good at being an SUV, aren't good at being a car, and all look like jellybeans.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#316

Post by kube-system »

tayo42 wrote: post #195
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are tripping over each other to pay $60k for suvs and trucks. There’s no incentive for smaller or cheaper cars as long as people are happy paying current premium prices.

Ford maverick has waitlists. Small and around 30k

Which is 50% more expensive than what Ford initially promised it to be in 2022, but they stopped taking orders because they couldn't (or didn't want to) actually deliver on their promises

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#317

Post by kube-system »

ponector wrote: post #281
bilsbie wrote: post #53

Battery prices have dropped so much over the past ten years. So I don’t understand why they can’t make a cheaper vehicle. At some point EVs should be way cheaper than ICE vehicles.

There are many cheap EV globally. In Germany new Dacia Spring starts from €16k. The thing is almost no one wants to buy small cheap car in US. Expensive SUV - yes, but not small car. Especially not electric.

The US has had high tariffs on Chinese cars for a long time though. After tariffs, that car would be more expensive in the US than a Tesla Model 3.

Also, it likely doesn't meet US crash standards without modifications. And it really would not keep up with traffic on the highways here.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#318

Post by ponector »

kube-system wrote: post #317
ponector wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cheap EV globally. In Germany new Dacia Spring starts from €16k. The thing is almost no one wants to buy small cheap car in US. Expensive SUV - yes, but not small car. Especially not electric.

The US has had high tariffs on Chinese cars for a long time though. After tariffs, that car would be more expensive in the US than a Tesla Model 3. Also, it likely doesn't meet US crash standards without modifications. And it really would not keep up with traffic on the highways here.

Funny Dacia Spring EV could meet strict EU standards and keep up with traffic on the German Autobahn but you think it's not good for USA.

Btw, it's actually Tesla cannot meet strict rules: cybertrack is not street legal in EU.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#320

Post by guywithahat »

drewbitt wrote: post #297
guywithahat wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> parking assist that actually works Are you sure you owned both? You're sort of exposing yourself as never having owned a Tesla at all (at least not a new one). I've never experienced phantom braking in my Y (although I have in a ford escort), and the headlight dimming is pretty good (again in the new model Y, unsure about an old one). Niceness is subjective, so I suppose it's inappropriate to declare it as nicer, b…

A base Model Y costs $18,000 more than a base Camry when the price is not being artificially lowered by the government. Different price range entirely.

Correct. That’s why the Model Y is in a different class than a Camry. The Camry is my example of a modern geo metro
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