We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own • Hacker News Board

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#311

Post by 999900000999 » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:32 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #260

zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. I like that they have iphones. Doing internet banking on their phone is safer than doing it on their desktop computer. Why is that? The reason is that the desktop PC security model is deeply fl…

As is Android has support for multi user more.

Get some real sandboxing, let me install whatever I want in my sandbox.

That's a bare minimum.

I also want "I am an adult" mode where I get to do what I want. If Google wants to flag secure net, fine. Not every thing is going to work.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#312

Post by fluoridation » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:35 AM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #256

lukan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And that is what is wrong here. Even the smallest nation should be far more powerful than the largest corporation" Since nations can be really small, I don't agree.

Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence. I would hope you'd agree those are not powers that we should grant to large corporations... I think it's shocking how many people Google can affect through its search algorithms (more than any nation on Earth) and yet there is no democratic system to hold them…

>Even the smallest nations have the legal right to permanently incarcerate, strip you of your assets or even murder you if you are in their sphere of influence.

A nation that did that would be able to do that exactly once before everyone decides to never do business with it ever again, which they can afford to do because it's such a small market. Exercising arbitrary power is not the trump card you think it is. Hell, even a tiny nation with reasonable but annoying (from the point of view of a corporation) laws may not be worth it to deal with.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#313

Post by hdgvhicv » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:39 AM UTC

tonyhart7 wrote: post #293

ekianjo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Netflix sure. I don't care. But when it comes to banking and you are forced to use between two OS or this means no access to your bank digitally, this is a massive problem and restriction to citizens' freedom. Everyone needs a bank to operate, and they need to maximize the options available to use them.

well no one to force you to do banking from smartphones You can do manually like the old days, EXPLICTLY ALLOWING NON GOOGLE/APPLE to do banking in their own mobile phone meaning THERE ARE MILLIONS OF USERS that can fall victim to scammer+cracker how cant you see all of that???? ITS JUST NOT ABOUT YOU edit: please educate first, y'all need to know differences between mobile banking and internet banking You can downvo…

My bank lets me do everything just fine on Firefox/linux.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#314

Post by School-Cotton » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:40 AM UTC

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #286

School-Cotton wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones have a locked bootloader; it is impossible to run an OS not signed by Apple unless you find an exploit.

So what? Should security features be illegal so people can more easily run their own OS's on phones?

Well no. I agree with your overall point in that I don’t really think vendors should be forced to allow you to install whatever software you want. I’m just pointing out that the way you described the current situation is inaccurate.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#315

Post by beeflet » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:40 AM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

Maybe we must find individual solutions to each controlling application? Replace netflix with bittorrent, replace banks with bitcoin, etc?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#316

Post by Rohansi » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:41 AM UTC

spaqin wrote: post #283

josephg wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. I like that they have iphones. Doing internet banking on their phone is safer than doing it on their desktop computer. Why is that? The reason is that the desktop PC security model is deeply fl…

Your parents are more likely to be a victim of a phone call scam than malware, even on PC. There is also no guarantee that malware will not slip through cracks of official stores or signatures. You can also choose to do your banking at the physical branch. We already had "best of both worlds", especially on mobile OSes - granular permissions per-app were quite good, and on Android until few years ago root was widely…

Also the good old phishing emails/links. So many people are simply unaware when a website is pretending to look like an app/floating window. Even younger people who you'd hope know better are falling for it today. I work on a PC game and players (mostly young adults) are constantly getting their accounts compromised by the same phishing sites that pop up monthly.

AI voice and video cloning scams are also only going to increase. Why would scammers need to get people to install random APKs when they can just impersonate a family member and tell them what to give directly?

To me it seems very much like the classic "think of the children" type argument. It's not going to really fix anything in the end but it will benefit Google.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#317

Post by rblatz » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:42 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #245

zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

You could just not watch Netflix. Most of the content is kind of crap anyway, low effort filler. And the streaming services have trouble even licensing third-party content at all unless they have robust copy protection. That may be stupid because it drives more consumers to privacy but copyright holders are free to negotiate any licensing terms they want.

Netflix is right in its prime right now, K-Pop Demon Hunters is a smash hit and probably the biggest cultural thing going on right now, it has like 4 songs from it in the top 10. Wednesday is coming back this weekfor the end of season 2. Stranger Things is wrapping up in November,

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#318

Post by soonc » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:43 AM UTC

> It should be possible to run Android on an iPhone and manufacturers should be required by law to provide enough technical support and documentation to make the development of new operating systems possible.

Why?

The author doesn't explain why and I've yet to see any justification for this other than, essentially, "because I want to" - usually evoking supposed freedoms and rights that exist only in the realm of wishful thinking.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#319

Post by beeflet » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:45 AM UTC

2rsf wrote: post #309

ekianjo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Netflix sure. I don't care. But when it comes to banking and you are forced to use between two OS or this means no access to your bank digitally, this is a massive problem and restriction to citizens' freedom. Everyone needs a bank to operate, and they need to maximize the options available to use them.

I mentioned that in another thread, but banks have a legal obligation to to assess and mitigate risks in the service they give to you- you, personally, might be tech savvy enough to understand what you are doing but most people are not and the bank is held accountable when something bad happens. This is why they limit service to certain devices or OS versions, even when it comes at the expense of convenience.

Perhaps the solution then is to invent a new bank that is more resistant to regulation and gives users more freedom to secure their own funds.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#320

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Sep 01, 2025, 5:46 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #275

idle_zealot wrote: post #4

This makes the point that the real battle we should be fighting is not for control of Android/iOS, but the ability to run other operating systems on phones. That would be great, but as the author acknowledges, building those alternatives is basically impossible. Even assuming that building a solid alternative is feasible, though, I don't think their point stands. Generally I'm not keen on legislatively forcing a deve…

> ability to run other operating systems on phones > building those alternatives is basically impossible For smart people it is not impossible. Just few years ago, few folks wrote complicated drivers for completely closed hardware, and I'm talking about M1 Macbook. Google Pixel, on the other hand, was pretty open until very recently. I might be wrong about specifics, but I'm pretty sure that most of software was open…

> I don't understand why mobile systems do not attract OS builders.

Cellphones are not very useful as programming tools (too small), which is what Open Source excels at.

Also, cellphones need to handle some annoying things, like it should always be possible and easy to call emergency services. Which is to say, the UI work seems stressful.