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When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

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Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#311

Post by baud147258 »

lyu07282 wrote: post #295
bluecheese452 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we talk about topic X if there are people who don’t think about it like I do? People having different opinions isn’t a bad thing. Also I think you likely meant widely, not wildly.

> People having different opinions isn’t a bad thing. No I think that is a bad thing and a failure of our society if there are still people around repeating talking points from 1850s British colonial rule for christ sake! Its like saying the Roman empire was great because it brought Aqueducts to the savages or something, like that is just education/knowledge of history + basic moral principles. The genocidal barbaris…

Wasn't the Roman empire better than most contemporary polities? Like it created a long era of peace in a significant area and successfully integrated various population, culminating in the 3rd century where all free men were made roman citizens. If you'd ask under which ancient polity I would prefer to live, chance are I'll choose the Roman empire.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#312

Post by awesome_dude »

seszett wrote: post #269
nl wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is why should it happen in the first place? The OP never indicated if they agreed with the claims or not. They raised it just because it was relevant to the sun setting on the French Empire.

> They raised it just because it was relevant to the sun setting on the French Empire. New Caledonia becoming independent would not have an effect on this though, the sun would still not set on France, as New Amsterdam and Wallis-et-Futuna are close enough to prevent that and very unlikely to leave France in the foreseeable future.

That's arse about face.

New Caledonia becoming independent isn't going to cause the French empire to see the sun setting, it's a signal that the French empire is.

The empire losing New Caledonia demonstrates the influence and reach of that empire has waned.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#313

Post by lyu07282 »

baud147258 wrote: post #311
lyu07282 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People having different opinions isn’t a bad thing. No I think that is a bad thing and a failure of our society if there are still people around repeating talking points from 1850s British colonial rule for christ sake! Its like saying the Roman empire was great because it brought Aqueducts to the savages or something, like that is just education/knowledge of history + basic moral principles. The genocidal barbaris…

Wasn't the Roman empire better than most contemporary polities? Like it created a long era of peace in a significant area and successfully integrated various population, culminating in the 3rd century where all free men were made roman citizens. If you'd ask under which ancient polity I would prefer to live, chance are I'll choose the Roman empire.

If aliens invaded earth and after decades of subjugation they successfully "integrated" us savages, they would view it the same way. The forceful destruction of all our culture, languages, religions, history, sovereignty, it would all be justified in the end because their alien technology and culture is "superior". I don't believe it's justified no matter how relatively primitive we are, and if aliens did it that alone would demonstrate their own primitive culture quite clearly no matter how much they whitewash themselves in the intergalactic history books.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#314

Post by awesome_dude »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #307
awesome_dude wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep making up bad faith arguments then claim nobody is engaging with you.

The question is not if you are engaging with me but with the issue. As you keep coming back to the Fiji example, refuse to admit the postulate your clearly holds, refuse to consider the moral question of what should be done with descendants of settlers, I’m personally standing by my opinion that you are the one using bad faith here. I’m personally entirely fine with leaving the discussion as is as an illustration of…

You continue to put words into peoples mouths in a disingenuous attempt to create some narrative that doesn't exist.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#315

Post by awesome_dude »

baud147258 wrote: post #308
awesome_dude wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indigenous people of New Caledonia are currently in a deep battle (politically) with the French colonialists for the governance of the lands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_New_Caledonia_unrest

Burning cars and rioting after the last three referendums (which had excluded 100k people who had arrived after 1998) didn't go your way is sure a way to get ahead in politics. Also what would be your proposed solution? Make the island be independent and let the Kanak expulse anyone who isn't like them? Because such blood and soil were usually spouted by people wearing brown shirts in Europe in the 30s.

Your judgement on what or isn't good politics is of no interest to me>

I have not proposed any solution because I have zero skin in the game, it was merely produced as an example of the sun setting on an empire.

Why all you trolls feel the need to make accusations, put words into other people's mouths, and demand "proposals" is beyond me - seems like either an inability to read and comprehend things, or a deliberate attempt to derail conversations - which one are you?

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#316

Post by awesome_dude »

suddenlybananas wrote: post #232
awesome_dude wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indigenous people of New Caledonia are currently in a deep battle (politically) with the French colonialists for the governance of the lands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_New_Caledonia_unrest

They voted 3 times to stay with France. At a certain point, you have to admit independence is a minoritarian position. This is also a vote where people who had recently moved (e.g. in the last 30 years) to New Caledonia were ineligible to vote (including people born on New Caledonia if their parents couldn't vote). If Quebec had had similar restrictions on the franchise, they would have easily become independent from…

Another one that cannot read or comprehend the discussion

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#317

Post by platevoltage »

Sprocklem wrote: post #231
platevoltage wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why on earth does Canada still put British monarchs on their money? Follow up question, why doesn't the US do it?

Canada doesn't. It puts Canadian monarchs on its coins. The fact that they are physically the same person as the British monarch is incidental.

I’ve been to Canada, and the people strangely have a wildly different accent than their own monarchs for some reason.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#318

Post by seszett »

awesome_dude wrote: post #312
seszett wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They raised it just because it was relevant to the sun setting on the French Empire. New Caledonia becoming independent would not have an effect on this though, the sun would still not set on France, as New Amsterdam and Wallis-et-Futuna are close enough to prevent that and very unlikely to leave France in the foreseeable future.

That's arse about face. New Caledonia becoming independent isn't going to cause the French empire to see the sun setting, it's a signal that the French empire is. The empire losing New Caledonia demonstrates the influence and reach of that empire has waned.

I was just trying to provide what I thought was a relevant fact.

As a Frenchman I don't really care about what other people think about French influence.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#319

Post by awesome_dude »

seszett wrote: post #318
awesome_dude wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's arse about face. New Caledonia becoming independent isn't going to cause the French empire to see the sun setting, it's a signal that the French empire is. The empire losing New Caledonia demonstrates the influence and reach of that empire has waned.

I was just trying to provide what I thought was a relevant fact. As a Frenchman I don't really care about what other people think about French influence.

You were deliberately misrepresenting what was said in order to start an argument.

Re: When the sun will literally set on what's left of the British Empire

#320

Post by School-Cotton »

wk_end wrote: post #79
bee_rider wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does their king have any more hard powers in Canada or Australia than, say, Taylor Swift or some other rich celebrity?

Technically. The king here has as much power as he has in the UK. And, likewise, if ever exercised it’d probably lead to the end of the monarchy. In practice Taylor Swift might have more.

> if ever exercised it’d probably lead to the end of the monarchy.

If he does something that is openly obviously defying the will of the democratic majority, sure. But there are a lot of ways he can put his thumb on the scale in more subtle situations where the legal course of action is unclear.

For example, if the Queen had refused Boris Johnson's request to prorogue parliament in 2019 -- which was later ruled illegal anyway -- I doubt it would have led to the end of the monarchy.

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