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F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

cnn.com

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Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#311

Post by mulmen »

the__alchemist wrote: post #281
diggan wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article is somewhat sensationalistic somewhat sensationalistic?! The article clearly tries to give the impression the pilot was on the call: > A US Air Force F-35 pilot spent 50 minutes on an airborne conference call with Lockheed Martin engineers trying to solve a problem with his fighter jet before he ejected Knowing the quality of media these days, it wouldn't surprise me if it CNN just got it really wrong,…

SOF initiates Conference Hotel procedures, FYI. It's a (rarely used) checklist in their book. SOF is the pilot sitting in the tower to liase with ATC and handle emergencies from an ops perspective.

To the uninitiated: SOF is Supervisor of Flying.

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#312

Post by pbasista »

dfox wrote: post #223

The article is somewhat sensationalistic. If you read the actual report you will find out that: The pilot was not part of the conference call! What froze was not hydraulic fluid for actuators (in some hydraulic line), but hydraulic fluid in the shock absorbers. The last paragraph of the article and seems to be missing a few words and reads as the investigators blaming the people directly involved, which is essentiall…

> The pilot was not part of the conference call!

Thank you. If I cannot even trust one of the substantial parts of the headline to be true, then my interest to read or even care about such an article is reduced to almost zero.

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#313

Post by reactordev »

quest88 wrote: post #253
reactordev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you never flew VFR over Nebraska corn… Yes, papi lights are operated by radio. However, not everyone has fancy radios and only has handhelds, their Nokia phone, or their right arm wave… It’s not all class C+ out there. I will point out that PAPI lights as part of a PCL system are operated using mic clicks on CTAF radio. These systems are expensive and sometimes you’re landing in a grass field and just need…

How’s Phil going to see someone’s arm at night? Just to clarify to unfamiliar readers: class deltas exist with ground and tower, and after hours pilot controlled lighting. Untowered class echoes are everywhere, with pilot controlled lighting. Yes, many untowered airports have pilot controlled lighting via ctaf, as stated in the airport facilities directory. This is very common at class E airports. For example, look a…

Now you got it. That is indeed my argument. You definitely should call Phil before you land at his place. You can also call him while you’re at 10DME. Phil likes to walk the dogs and isn’t always by his radio.

But to dismiss basic VFR to say “That’s not in the manual!” “Sounds like LLM nonsense” and say Phil can’t see your arm waving from a Piper is ridiculous.

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#314

Post by mulmen »

andy_xor_andrew wrote: post #282
the__alchemist wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't read the article; read the report.

Sure, of course I will trust the report as the source of truth. But I'm interested in the reporting. There are, you know, journalistic standards, which are considered kinda "journalism 101"! For instance, getting the basic facts of a story correct - especially the facts stated in the headline . So I'm curious, did the reporter do their due diligence, and write the article in a way that is factually correct, but highl…

> There are, you know, journalistic standards

Are there? What are they?

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#315

Post by hluska »

keepamovin wrote: post #256
burnte wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on why and your medicals. There's not hard limit of 2.

I guess trashing a couple hundred million dollars is a occasionally considered an issue tho looking at how contracts have traditionally been funded you’d be forgiven for thinking it wasn’t

It’s a massive issue - crashes are investigated and it’s not uncommon for a pilot to lose their jobs if they deviate from procedures. A few years back, a Marine Colonel was relieved of a prestigious command after being found to have ejected too early:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/10/31/pilot-of-f-35...

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#316

Post by themaninthedark »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #261
dfox wrote: post #223

The article is somewhat sensationalistic. If you read the actual report you will find out that: The pilot was not part of the conference call! What froze was not hydraulic fluid for actuators (in some hydraulic line), but hydraulic fluid in the shock absorbers. The last paragraph of the article and seems to be missing a few words and reads as the investigators blaming the people directly involved, which is essentiall…

If you want to read the actual report, it's not linked from the CNN article, but it's available here: https://www.pacaf.af.mil/Portals/6/documents/3_AIB%20Report.... Edit: While CNN says the air force blamed the crash on ice in the hydraulic lines, it's obvious that ice can't be legally culpable. The report actually says: > Additionally, the [Accident Investigation Board] president found, by a preponderance of the ev…

Of note to readers not familiar with hydraulic fluid, it is hygroscopic:

>Passenger safety requires that in commercial airplanes hydraulic actuators be powered by fire-resistant hydraulic fluids. As a downside, such fluids are hygroscopic which means that these tend to accumulate humidity from the environment

https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9040/8/4/131

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#317

Post by chiefalchemist »

MostlyStable wrote: post #294
RyanOD wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, of course, CNN only links to their own articles. Why bother linking to the actual report? The rise in sites that only link to themselves 99% of the time really frustrates me.

Journalism's failure to adopt linking to sources etc in the internet age is kind of infuriating. I get it, back in physical newspaper/magazine days, linking wasn't possible, and it takes a while for new norms to change and habits to form, but articles have been internet-first for well over a decade at this point. It should be completely unacceptable not to have linking to sources whenever relevant. I'm not sure I hav…

If they’re not providing essential links then it’s not journalism. They shouldn’t be given credit for a title they are not earning.

If you pet barks, do you still call it a cat? Of course not.

Links make it journalism. Not linking makes it reporting. They should not be considered synonymous.

The point is, people who should know better keep calling the likes of CNN journalism and those who don’t know any better keep believing they’re consuming content and forming understanding based on journalism.

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#318

Post by verdverm »

MostlyStable wrote: post #294
RyanOD wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, of course, CNN only links to their own articles. Why bother linking to the actual report? The rise in sites that only link to themselves 99% of the time really frustrates me.

Journalism's failure to adopt linking to sources etc in the internet age is kind of infuriating. I get it, back in physical newspaper/magazine days, linking wasn't possible, and it takes a while for new norms to change and habits to form, but articles have been internet-first for well over a decade at this point. It should be completely unacceptable not to have linking to sources whenever relevant. I'm not sure I hav…

They complain about how social media links to them, while they are equally guilty of link shenanigans

Re: F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before crash

#319

Post by hopelite »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #261
dfox wrote: post #223

The article is somewhat sensationalistic. If you read the actual report you will find out that: The pilot was not part of the conference call! What froze was not hydraulic fluid for actuators (in some hydraulic line), but hydraulic fluid in the shock absorbers. The last paragraph of the article and seems to be missing a few words and reads as the investigators blaming the people directly involved, which is essentiall…

If you want to read the actual report, it's not linked from the CNN article, but it's available here: https://www.pacaf.af.mil/Portals/6/documents/3_AIB%20Report.... Edit: While CNN says the air force blamed the crash on ice in the hydraulic lines, it's obvious that ice can't be legally culpable. The report actually says: > Additionally, the [Accident Investigation Board] president found, by a preponderance of the ev…

Thanks for breaking that down. None of that surprises me and it's basically what I was expecting. This report gives a glimpse into the reality of the US military behind the propaganda facade and the massive margins for error stuffed with money.
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