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Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

autoexpress.co.uk

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Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#311

Post by xnx »

plqbfbv wrote: post #117
jaffa2 wrote: post #18

Tesla already does this. Why no kickback there?

I guess I'm way more comfortable with a one-time purchase unlock (kind of SW "license" upgrade) rather than a subscription for hardware that I have 100% of the time. Example: Acceleration Boost is a 2k one-time upgrade. Once you purchase it, you get it forever. EAP and FSD are the same: pay once, get for life. Those who purchased FSD before HW3 also got/get included driving computer upgrade. Of course this was done f…

Do these "upgrades" stay with the cat between owners?

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#312

Post by koonsolo »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #304
koonsolo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is abusive, wasteful, and should be illegal in my opinion. I don't agree with this. Let's say they make 2 engines, one normal one and one powerful one. Customer pay different price points. Now it turns out that making 2 different engines is actually pretty wasteful, and it's way more efficient to make 1 engine, and limit the possibilities for the lower price point (this is already happening). Now you come alon…

Going "back to the inefficient way" is wasteful, and artificial limiting is also wasteful. Nothing weird about two things both being bad. In a competitive market they wouldn't be able to get away with either of those. Multiple companies that know how to make their lower end models better for free would do it, because they want more market share. So we need to figure out how to get as close to that state as possible.…

So what price point do you suggest for this non-limited, high end engine?

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#313

Post by koonsolo »

cactacea wrote: post #259
koonsolo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is abusive, wasteful, and should be illegal in my opinion. I don't agree with this. Let's say they make 2 engines, one normal one and one powerful one. Customer pay different price points. Now it turns out that making 2 different engines is actually pretty wasteful, and it's way more efficient to make 1 engine, and limit the possibilities for the lower price point (this is already happening). Now you come alon…

> Now it turns out that making 2 different engines is actually pretty wasteful, and it's way more efficient to make 1 engine Generally speaking gas/diesel engines are used across several models, mass market manufacturers aren't making bespoke engines for one specific vehicle trim that isn't used elsewhere. The overall direction is further standardization of platforms (esp with electric vehicles) but large companies l…

> I'm sorry but your speculation is pretty far off base and isn't based in fact.

So you claim VW is not selling the same engine to different market segments, and limiting it through software?

If they do, why are they doing it?

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#314

Post by Dylan16807 »

koonsolo wrote: post #312
Dylan16807 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going "back to the inefficient way" is wasteful, and artificial limiting is also wasteful. Nothing weird about two things both being bad. In a competitive market they wouldn't be able to get away with either of those. Multiple companies that know how to make their lower end models better for free would do it, because they want more market share. So we need to figure out how to get as close to that state as possible.…

So what price point do you suggest for this non-limited, high end engine?

I don't even know what engines cost now. No idea. Why do you ask?

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#315

Post by koonsolo »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #314
koonsolo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what price point do you suggest for this non-limited, high end engine?

I don't even know what engines cost now . No idea. Why do you ask?

That's the whole idea of having 2 or more price points, because you have 2 or more types of customers. If you can only sell at 1 price point, I'm asking which one that is going to be? Or in other words, either as a company you start selling at a loss, or you lose your bottom tier customers.

If you don't understand this, there is no point in discussing this further.

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#316

Post by Dylan16807 »

koonsolo wrote: post #315
Dylan16807 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know what engines cost now . No idea. Why do you ask?

That's the whole idea of having 2 or more price points, because you have 2 or more types of customers. If you can only sell at 1 price point, I'm asking which one that is going to be? Or in other words, either as a company you start selling at a loss, or you lose your bottom tier customers. If you don't understand this, there is no point in discussing this further.

> If you can only sell at 1 price point

What was unclear about "the proposed law wouldn't make multiple prices illegal"

As for what would happen in a competitive market with everyone acting in their best interest, I'm not sure what exactly would happen. But they're allowed to have multiple prices. It's not the prices causing the problems. And there are other ways to distinguish products that aren't artificial limits.

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#317

Post by slumberlust »

tux1968 wrote: post #229
dare944 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturers have been shipping cars with detuned engines forever, and tuners have been tweaking them to unlock the hidden power for just as long. Back in the beginning of the century I owned a 2000 Audi S4 twin-turbo. The torque curve on it looked like a perfect plateau between 2,500 and 5,300 rpm. I replaced the entire ECU with a chipped duplicate (a five minute swap) and instantly gained 50 horsepower. Of course,…

This is an honest question, because I have no knowledge about cars at all. Could the "detuning" rather be interpreted as akin to the "binning" that CPU manufacturers do? So, if you buy a higher model car, you get qualified and tested parts for that performance rating. And if you buy a lower model, and "overclock" it, you're on your own?

I don't think the analogy works because you're not getting different hardware, just different mixtures of fuel/air/timing that trade reliability and mpg for more performance.

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#318

Post by tomhow »

abetancort wrote: post #165
josephcsible wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla performance trims are physically different, and the Track Mode switch they have can be freely turned on and off at will, so that's not equivalent to what Volkswagen is doing here.

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We've banned this account for continually posting unsubstantive, abusive comments and ignoring our requests to stop.

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#319

Post by degamad »

slt2021 wrote: post #61
degamad wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that the bank can't suddenly decide that you owe them $800 each month instead of $720, but VW can decide that your subscription costs $100 instead of $20.

because they can do, but doesn't mean they will do that. You know what else VW can do: price each car at million dollar MSRP minimum, to make more money, but they dont do that. What do you think holds them from jacking up prices to $1 mln ?

Jacking the price up before you buy allows you to decide not to buy, and to switch to an alternative instead. So VW has an incentive to keep up-front prices low.

Once you have bought the car, you are locked into paying the higher subscription costs, because the costs of switching are much higher than the increased subscription costs. There are no alternative suppliers for "increased performance" of your VW. Thus, the disincentive of lost sales is removed, and VW is not incentivised to keep subscription prices low.

(See also: Netflix)

Re: Volkswagen locks horsepower behind paid subscription

#320

Post by [deleted] »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #222
uyzstvqs wrote: post #216

Yeah, I think I'm just going to buy some old Lada from some local Russian or Ukrainian guy. I know that they're not the most reliable cars, but at least anyone can make aftermarket parts for them — and they're easy to repair as well. I might buy an EV someday if someone makes one which: Does not connect to the internet, is user-serviceable, it's possible to create aftermarket parts for without reverse engineering fir…

I don't think any western car manufacturer will ever want to deal with the potential liability issues when it comes to having users screw around in a high voltage electric drive system. This is not like a normal 12V car battery that will not even hurt you if you directly touch the poles with your hands. These EV batteries contain more than enough juice to zap you out of existence if you don't have relevant training.

[deleted]
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