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Blurry rendering of games on Mac

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Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#311

Post by pezezin »

floppyd wrote: post #174
pezezin wrote: post #39

Am I the only one who finds screens with rounded corners and notches really stupid? We had to struggle for decades with CRTs and their funky geometry, and when we finally get displays with perfect geometry, we botch them again to make them look... cooler?

I don't have a notched laptop screen, but I do like rounded corners, makes screens feel just a little bit more natural. My MacBook is older and doesn't have rounded corners, but I got used to them so much that I ended up simulating them in software.

More natural why? Paper doesn't (usually) have rounded corners and it looks pretty natural to me.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#312

Post by eviks »

dagmx wrote: post #291
eviks wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's correct, even Apple says so only using a different synonym unobscured https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsscreen/sa... > The distances from the screen’s edges at which content isn’t obscured. > because you cannot guarantee That's a condition you've added without justification. Nothing in the term requires it. The term's core benefit is that it's more clarity. Nothing more (in terms of ex…

It’s not a bad standard just because you personally struggle to understand it. Lots of things have historical names, especially in computer graphics, that are now standard. What is an absolute safe area or an unobstructed area in video then to you? How do you guarantee such a thing? Please define one as such that accounts for all display types with appropriate verbiage. I’ll personally advocate for it in the film ind…

> It’s not a bad standard just because you personally struggle to understand it.

I'm not as bad at this as you are, I've explained why it's bad several times without a reference to my understanding, but you fail to understand that primitive explanation, so now think others also can't.

> Lots of things have historical names, especially in computer graphics, that are now standard.

So? Lots of things also change. You forgot to finish your thought.

> How do you guarantee such a thing?

I don't, I use an API that does

> Please define one as such that accounts for all display types with appropriate verbiage.

Your favorite term doesn't do that.

> I’ll personally advocate for it in the film industry if you can come up with a term that is better than what the entirety of cinematic history has been able to think of.

Oh no, that's a recipe for disaster, please stick to worshipping historic standards, don't ruin a tiny chance of progress!

> Apple only claim that it’s unobstructed by their specific display edges and overlays but it doesn’t account for other display concerns. Hence safe area is still the most intuitive name.

Apple only claim that unobstructed API is unobstructed by their specific display edges and overlays but it doesn’t account for other display concerns. Hence unobstructed area is still the most intuitive name because it still is the closest to the reality, and because "safe" is still not safe, so offers no benefit.

> Would you also like to go and argue with people about alpha channels?

What, are they sacred?

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#313

Post by dagmx »

eviks wrote: post #312
dagmx wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a bad standard just because you personally struggle to understand it. Lots of things have historical names, especially in computer graphics, that are now standard. What is an absolute safe area or an unobstructed area in video then to you? How do you guarantee such a thing? Please define one as such that accounts for all display types with appropriate verbiage. I’ll personally advocate for it in the film ind…

> It’s not a bad standard just because you personally struggle to understand it. I'm not as bad at this as you are, I've explained why it's bad several times without a reference to my understanding, but you fail to understand that primitive explanation, so now think others also can't. > Lots of things have historical names, especially in computer graphics, that are now standard. So? Lots of things also change. You fo…

They’re not sacred but changing them gives a much lower payoff than the pain of changing.

None of your suggestions actually improve the situation. They’d just not scale the way you think they would to other display types when you query the safe area.

For example, Apple specifically calls out why they use the safe area term to correspond to different display types

> In tvOS, the safe area also includes the screen’s overscan insets, which represent the area covered by the screen’s bezel.

Unobstructed is longer, and provides no extra information of value. Go work in a visual industry and see how long before you get tired of saying title unobstructed and action unobstructed.

Again, you’re coming at this form the perspective of a lay person in the realm of displays and getting angered that the term isn’t immediately intuitive to you personally, rather than the entire industry that has a standard term that they use and have for many decades.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#314

Post by thescriptkiddie »

gwd wrote: post #188
pezezin wrote: post #39

Am I the only one who finds screens with rounded corners and notches really stupid? We had to struggle for decades with CRTs and their funky geometry, and when we finally get displays with perfect geometry, we botch them again to make them look... cooler?

Look, given current technology there are exactly three options: 1. Don't have a front-facing camera on your laptop. Your actual laptop screen can be as close to the edge of the laptop case as technology will allow, with no bevel. 2. Have a front-facing camera on your laptop, with no bevel. Your actual laptop screen is now square, but has to be 5mm shorter now. There's a 5mm strip at the top of your laptop that can't…

i'll pick option 1 every time. you can't make me but a computer with a camera in it

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#315

Post by monsieurbanana »

microtonal wrote: post #213
Yokolos wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What MacBook doesn't have a camera?

They are being sarcastic because the parent post put forward a false dichotomy between a notch and a camera or no notch but no camera.

I didn't think this would be so hard to understand. It's not a false dichotomy, without the notch the screen would have to be smaller to have the camera there. You didn't lose any pixels.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#316

Post by righthand »

mthoms wrote: post #275
righthand wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I’m right there with you. I can’t even use my laptop undocked because half my applications use the toolbar to store their icon. So I have to plug my laptop into my monitor just to see what is in my screen space. I have no idea why people praise these laptops, for a cpu I guess. Their design is a joke and feels like a Playskool laptop toy. At least when the old Apple forced “phablets” as the standard phone size…

Yeah, it's annoying. Try: https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/FelixKratz/SketchyBar https://www.macbartender.com I think there's a native solution (finally) coming in the next MacOS.

I’m not trying anything because it should have been implemented before launch natively. Not years after as part of some Product manager promotion cycle. Not installing a fix is how Apple wants me to use my machine by default in a broken state.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#317

Post by mort96 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #304
mort96 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, every app does not need to deal with it, at least in principle. Apple could literally have provided a resolution list which only covers the 16:10 resolutions which aren't covered by the notch, and then games literally wouldn't have known that they were running on a machine with a notch. The problem here is 100% that Apple, for some reason, provides both 16:10 "safe" resolutions and the actual whole screen resolut…

There are ways for an application to actually use 100% of the screen and draw over the notch[0], and apps taking screen captures or need to know the screen area but not for drawing will also need the full actual screen resolution. https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/qveb0u/force_true_fu...

Yeah, and there should be a special "get the actual full resolution of the screen" for those apps which use the special "draw to the actual full resolution of the screen" APIs. But the normal case should be for the OS to upheld the illusion that the screen has a 16:10 aspect ratio which excludes the part with the notch.

Or a (user-configurable) setting per app, and if the user configures the app to run below the notch, the OS should return the 16:10 resolutions and make the app draw below the notch; and if the user configures the app to take up the whole screen, the OS should return the full resolutions and make the app draw to the whole screen.

There should be no case where the app gets told about the 16:10.34 resolutions through normal display mode query APIs, but then gets scaled by the OS to fit in the 16:10 area below the notch.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#318

Post by nozzlegear »

lilyball wrote: post #299
diath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually really small, according to Steam Hardware Survey, Macs are only 1.88% of Steam users, which is less than that of Linux, which is probably why most developers don't care.

It's worth noting that the percentage of Steam users that are Mac users is not going to be equal to the percentage of gamers who play games on Macs, because not only is Steam not the only distribution channel for games on Mac, it's always been a fairly poor UX there, so bad I don't usually even bother installing it on my Macs anymore. Steam sees me as a Linux user as I have a Steam Deck, but I spend more time playing…

> It's worth noting that the percentage of Steam users that are Mac users is not going to be equal to the percentage of gamers who play games on Macs

Exactly this. As a piece of anecdata, I play World of Warcraft every day on my Mac, but I don't have steam installed.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#319

Post by crazygringo »

jameshart wrote: post #279
incrudible wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you can not argue anyone out of thinking it looks stupid or ugly. That is a visceral subjective experience and the extra space or whatever does nothing to make up for it. Now for the bezels, mind that an equidistant circle (or squircle) radius converges to zero. So to avoid having a large inner radius, avoid a large outer radius. The Macbook is not a tablet, you do not hold its corners in your hand. How…

The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded. The top corners are because the corners of the case are rounded. The corners of the case are rounded because you need to be able to do things like slide it into a laptop bag.

> The bottom corners of a MacBook screen are not rounded.

They are on my M4 MBA. They're software-rounded rather than in the hardware. You can move the pointer over the lower rounded corners; you can't over the upper ones.

Re: Blurry rendering of games on Mac

#320

Post by mthoms »

righthand wrote: post #316
mthoms wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's annoying. Try: https://github.com/jordanbaird/Ice https://github.com/FelixKratz/SketchyBar https://www.macbartender.com I think there's a native solution (finally) coming in the next MacOS.

I’m not trying anything because it should have been implemented before launch natively. Not years after as part of some Product manager promotion cycle. Not installing a fix is how Apple wants me to use my machine by default in a broken state.

In the time it took you to write your comments on this issue, you could have just fixed the problem.

It's a valid complaint, don't get me wrong... but insisting on not fixing it as some sort of moral stance is only hurting yourself.

People are weird, man.

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