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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#311

Post by benrutter »

From the intro:

> Airplane seats are getting smaller and smaller, clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash, and machines now answer our calls.

The author talks about a range of motivations behind these, but it seems like there's an obvious one we're missing. All these changes make products more profitable.

I would love to live in a society that prioritises sustainability and quality of life for its citizens. We currently only achieve those things if they're a byproduct of profit for coorporations.

Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but I definitely don't see these changes as bewildering. Quality has been intentionally lowered when it conflicts with profit since at least the Phoebus cartel[0]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#312

Post by divan »

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

I was searching recommendations at r/BuyItForLife the other day and saw a pattern of used-to-be-known-for-quality manufacturers scaled up and moved production abroad, which resulted in drop in quality.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#313

Post by brewdad »

cptaj wrote: post #293
ludicrousdispla wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a loyal buyer of a specific Eddie Bauer T-Shirt over at least a decade, until I bought four of them online a few years ago from their website. Despite my ordering all the same size and style, each shirt is a different length (varying by as much as two inches) and fabric weight. Haven't bought one since and won't do so again.

I've come to accept that, at least in latam, shirt sizes no longer have any real meaning. Every manufacturer in the world has a different opinion as to what those letters mean.

There is truth to this and it has certainly been true of women’s sizing for many years where everyone wants to be a size 2 (or whatever your number is) but no size 2 is the same across brands.

It’s an entirely different problem when I buy two pairs of presumably the same pair of jeans in the same style and size yet one can barely be buttoned up and the other requires a belt at all times.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#314

Post by bee_rider »

moffkalast wrote: post #199
nfriedly wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not saying that a high price label guarantees high quality, just that the spectrum of cost vs quality has broadened, even within big name brands. I think this needs to be repeated. People tend to think more expensive equals higher quality (I want this to be true!), and I think brands frequently take advantage of that to increase margins without significantly increasing quality. For example: I've been through th…

Along that line of thought I've noticed this recently: I can buy an expensive tool for say $200 that will last me 10 years. Or I can buy a cheap tool that costs $20 but will only last me two years. But if I want to use that tool for the duration of 10 years it then makes more sense to buy five of the cheap tool and save half in costs. Which one is really providing more quality over time? For some things this doesn't…

Depends on the failure mode I guess (if it explodes and hurts you, that could get expensive). Plus, you have to factor in 5 more trips to the store.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#315

Post by bee_rider »

nfriedly wrote: post #188
simianparrot wrote: post #149

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

> I'm not saying that a high price label guarantees high quality, just that the spectrum of cost vs quality has broadened, even within big name brands. I think this needs to be repeated. People tend to think more expensive equals higher quality (I want this to be true!), and I think brands frequently take advantage of that to increase margins without significantly increasing quality. For example: I've been through th…

Bluetooth doesn’t follow the typical quality curve anyway, it is just random whether or not your devices like each other.

I bet the sound quality on the Sony buds was better.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#316

Post by hliyan »

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Here's how I see it: in the absence of growth in market share or cost-reducing innovation, the only remaining strategy for profit maximization is the delivering of progressively lower quality products for progressively higher prices. This obviously destroys the brand over time, but brands can be recycled/reinvented.

A purely rational and self-interested (i.e. unencumbered by moral sentiment or empathy) economic agent would, in this case, calculate the longest time period a brand could be sustained at the highest price and the lowest production cost, before the brand is lost. If the ROI during that period justifies the investment, such an agent would execute the strategy.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#317

Post by layer8 »

divan wrote: post #312
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

I was searching recommendations at r/BuyItForLife the other day and saw a pattern of used-to-be-known-for-quality manufacturers scaled up and moved production abroad, which resulted in drop in quality.

Yes. Recommendations like that are not reliable, because the fact that a product has proven to hold up well for 10 or 20 years doesn't at all imply that it’s current incarnation will as well. The general trend is that it won't.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#318

Post by phil21 »

esperent wrote: post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

It does seem to take some more effort these days to find quality, but it’s mostly out there - even for clothing.

For jeans I’ve settled on Duluth Trading for the time being, found a style and size that fits well and is easily cared for. Many washes later and they are just fine!

Levi’s still seems fine to me as well, but you have to get them from their “high end” retail channel - such as their own storefronts. I’ve definitely noticed a wide difference between that channel and the “low end” retail channels like Amazon and mass market retailers. Seems many brands are doing this weird “channel segmentation” thing recently.

That said, you’re not gonna find a decent pair of jeans for less than around $80 today, unless you get rather lucky with a clearance sale. This makes sense to me, despite my formative years price anchoring being 20 years ago and the initial sticker shock.

I’ve found decent clothing for all my needs really - the most annoying thing is a brand discontinuing and item I started to rely on being there.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#319

Post by interloxia »

dijit wrote: post #132
kovac wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my dad a Nokia phone in 2008. A dumb phone, with just texting and calling features. It continues to work to this day, so, 17 years (the markings on the buttons are fully erased now, other than that it works). It outlived him. I don't know how they managed to build stuff like that. I would expect some electronic part to fail sometime along the way.

Well, I can tell you how: rigorous testing. I worked for Nokia (briefly, just before Eloppification) and I remember being told that when the iPhone launched everyone laughed because there was no way that the battery could last more than a day, there was no app store back then, no flash, no high-speed data (2G) and it failed every single one of the internal tests that Nokia had. Yet, people didn’t care, obviously - an…

having stable software - yeah that wasn't my experience. I used early and late Series 40 phones and they had plenty of problems. Mostly minor but not clearly getting better. And then it got worse. My N97 mini was a good phone with pretty terrible software. It was bad. And then it didn't matter anymore.

I'm not excited about the current duopoly, but a decent mid-range phone from either is better now that in was five years ago.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#320

Post by jcgrillo »

jstummbillig wrote: post #115
mayas_ wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs. > Housing is becoming a luxury. Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of co…

> factoring in huge safety and tech improvements

safety... maybe. tech? no. Having to plug in an expensive proprietary diagnostic device to diagnose problems, dozens of computers, hundreds of sensors many of which can render the vehicle bricked and inoperable if they're not working correctly.. None of this is better.

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