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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#311

Post by throwaway290 »

andrepd wrote: post #246
johnebgd wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It’d be convenient if Jews just stopped existing so the Arabs could take their homeland again This argument betrays your bias: that the land is yours (Jewish I mean), and "Arabs" stole it and want to steal it again. Of course, the other side sees it differently. They see a half a century of immigration to their land culminating in a partition that was imposed from the outside in Western colonialist fashion without…

If you are from US/Australia/... chances are you also think the land is yours and occasionally you celebrate what is for locals an "invasion day"

in this sense Jews are in a much better position because their presence in specifically that area many hundreds of years before Muslim conquest is archeologically documented. Unlike presence of Europeans in Americas or Australia.

What I say does not justify war atrocities. Just that "you are wrong to call it your land" is not a good working logic

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#312

Post by avip »

LightBug1 wrote: post #237
lottin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it even mean 'to want nothing more than to end the conflict'? As far as I can tell it doesn't mean anything. Everybody wants the conflict to end, including the Israelis and the Palestinians. They just want it to end differently, of course.

[flagged]

Is there a way for IDF to fight Hamas without "inflict war crimes, or terrorism on civilians" though? How would that work in practical terms?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#313

Post by basisword »

xg15 wrote: post #190
alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

>> An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead.

You have to look at the other side too. Palestinian's are born knowing that Israeli's have taken lots of their land through violent force. And they want to take more of it. And while the Israeli's live in a well developed wealthy nation they are condemned to poverty.

Consider the King David Hotel Bombing[1]. Israeli terrorists murdered nearly 100 people. In 2006 Netanyahu presided over the unveiling of a memorial plaque, alongside some of the terrorists involved in it, with the plaque specifically remembering the terrorist who died in the attack. So Israeli terrorism is fine, even worthy of praise.

And while the Israelis may grow up scared that the Palestinian's want them dead, 10's of thousands of Palestinian children won't grow up at all.

>> I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well

I agree. It seems that all over Europe at least, the governments are largely going against public opinion on this issue. But it's not the first time we've seen this (Iraq being a recent example).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#315

Post by hedora »

cladopa wrote: post #205

[flagged]

This article from the BBC corroprates the claims in the parent article, and also talks about why there are so many civilian casualties at these food distribution centers:

https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haa...

The most obvious problems are that the food distribution centers are placed deep inside military red zones (which is not common practice), and that Israeli soldiers have been ordered to fire at civilians in those zones, even if they obviously pose no threat (which is clearly a war crime).

The sections "Troops describe firing at crowds of aid seekers" and "Aid workers and medics call for end to GHF distribution plan" explain in more detail.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#316

Post by wuschel »

maeil wrote: post #248
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I'm Swedish. Since I was a child, for decades, I was taught and never questioned the idea that Germany had learnt from their history, in the most admirable way. That it was really ingrained into the German culture to never let anything like the holocaust happen again. That the education system there was very good in really making people understand why it happened, what went wrong, and how to make sure there would be…

I would not extrapolate from the discourse with one German to a general statement of a heterogeneous population of ~80M people. There are many different opinions and positions in Germany - like in every country in the world. Please keep that in mind.

Germany has indeed still have a ‘vaccination’. How well it works, and whether it is not exploited by politics, is another matter.

Lastly, the conflict in the Middle East is one of the most complex conflicts in recent human history - and there is no easy way out. That also applies to the situation in Gaza.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#317

Post by avip »

kpozin wrote: post #306

[flagged]

The Hebrew version had also distanced itself from what would be considered Journalism. But with no real field reporting from Gaza, that's the info you can get, and you have to guesstimate the reality from there.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#319

Post by mjevans »

xg15 wrote: post #222
lottin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it even mean 'to want nothing more than to end the conflict'? As far as I can tell it doesn't mean anything. Everybody wants the conflict to end, including the Israelis and the Palestinians. They just want it to end differently, of course.

In theory, we want to end it through the Two-State Solution (though even what this means is vague - certainty not the borders of 1967 that Palestinians and Arabs are demanding) But yeah, in practice, we seem to want it to end with full Israeli dominance, and the Palestinians either emigrating to Egypt and Jordan or vanishing into thin air, I suppose.

I'd like better news coverage of that:

What exactly ARE the goals / demands of every side. Both what they say in public, and what's generally accepted as the rational real goals each side requests / demands / etc via peace talks as well as through violence.

The breakdown could even focus on factions within the nebulous term of 'sides'. An average citizen is likely to have looser criteria than a government / terrorist.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#320

Post by mpweiher »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #249
wakeupcaller wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Is there a reason to disbelieve the soldiers’ testimony?

There is plenty of reason to disbelieve the testimony was reported accurately.

Haaretz’s English edition claims that IDF soldiers were ordered to fire at unarmed Palestinians waiting for food in Gaza, but the original Hebrew version? It states they were told to fire towards crowds to keep them away from the aid sites. This represents a significant difference in intent, legality, and moral implications

https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/haaretz-the-lies-continue

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44404779

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