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America’s incarceration rate is in decline

theatlantic.com

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Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#311

Post by ath3nd »

graemep wrote: post #286
ath3nd wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously the answer is "1950s america". And the 50s to 80s anywhere else in the civilized world.

It does not have to be a replica of of 50s society though. In particular, I do not think the model of "men go out to work, women look after home and kids" is a great one. There are lot of alternatives. Men can be primary parents (I was, once the kids got to about the age of eight or so, and was an equal parent before that) and they could stay at home (I continued working, but I was already self-employed and working f…

> I think the ideal set up (it would have been so for me) would have been for both parents to work part time.

Beautifully said, very progressive also!

I am a big fan of the 4-day work week (for the same amount of money as 5 days), it's been transformative for my life. The extra energy and focus you get from that 1 day translates to higher productivity in the 4 days where you do work. Sadly, the current "squeeze em', bleed em' dry, and drop em'" brand of capitalism is incompatible with the majority of the people to experience how good life can be like that.

I certainly ain't looking forward to them raising the retirement age to 1337 by the time I get to retire.

It's like a race where they repeatedly move the finishing line because the organizers took the medals and sold them, while waiting for you to drop dead so they don't have to give you what you are due.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#312

Post by mandmandam »

watwut wrote: post #289
wizee wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People supported families with single incomes with less than high school education for centuries before the 1950s.

All the other members of the family were active and produced useful things - both kids and women. The iddle lifestyle was limited to richer classes.

In foraging societies - ie, most people for the vast majority of human history - people worked ~15–20 hours/week on subsistence tasks. The rest was leisure or social time (ie, time for being a human later rebranded as 'idleness').

Industrialization has pushed inequality to extremes while raising hours worked - even as productivity keeps shooting up. There's no good reason for people to tolerate this; it's just exploitation.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#313

Post by worldsayshi »

strict9 wrote: post #12

> Rapidly declining numbers of youth are committing crimes, getting arrested, and being incarcerated. This matters because young offenders are the raw material that feeds the prison system: As one generation ages out, another takes its place on the same horrid journey. Another factor which will soon impact this, if it isn't already, is the rapidly changing nature of youth. Fertility rates have been dropping since 200…

You're half implying this but I wonder if the change in youth culture comes from the simple ratio of adults vs kids in the social circle around each kid. Youth culture needs a lot of kids around to get amplified. When most of the people around you are adult you may tend to adopt the culture of the adult world rather than creating your own.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#314

Post by _benton »

mandmandam wrote: post #312
watwut wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the other members of the family were active and produced useful things - both kids and women. The iddle lifestyle was limited to richer classes.

In foraging societies - ie, most people for the vast majority of human history - people worked ~15–20 hours/week on subsistence tasks. The rest was leisure or social time (ie, time for being a human later rebranded as 'idleness'). Industrialization has pushed inequality to extremes while raising hours worked - even as productivity keeps shooting up. There's no good reason for people to tolerate this; it's just exploi…

You can still do this now, it's just called "being homeless" and it actually sucks.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#315

Post by sethammons »

anyfoo wrote: post #84
bluGill wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the act of having a child is much more deliberate and the parents likely having more resources This is both good and bad. Having a child is very difficult, but it gets harder as you get older. You lack a lot of monitory resources as a teen or the early 20s, but you have a lot more energy, as you get older your body starts decaying you will lack energy. A kid had at 40 will still be depending on your when you are 55…

We did wait for the “perfect” time, and are very happy we did. I got my son at almost 40, and I’m positive I’m a much better parent because of that. Sure, kids cost energy, but at 40 and 50 you’re not geriatric. I often get the opportunity to compare our parenting style to younger parents, and it’s clear that they often have some emotional growing up to do themselves. They complain about normal parenting things that…

My wife and I had our first at age 15. Then another at 22. And our last at 27. I've raised children while on welfare and while a software engineer.

I was more patient as a teen than I am now in my 40s. Now I am tired. All the time. I fear I would literally die of exhaustion if I had to maintain more irregular hours than I already do due to insomnia that I have developed over the last half decade.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#316

Post by Hilift »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #8

this is great news. but... i fear the new avenues of business sought by companies that operate for-profit prisons - i don't expect they'll just eat the losses of declining populations in their main moneymakers, and we're already starting to see them work on detention facilities for DHS etc.

Prisons are ancient history. The latest chapter is the tough on crime states have glorious high speed pursuits. All those Challengers blasting away at 140 mph in the breakdown lane, rollover 10-50 pits, suspects at gunpoint, now published in 1080 on YouTube for some state and county agencies. A single pursuit may result in two or three disabled police vehicles that need to be replaced. A prepped vehicle is over $100k. In 2024 Arkansas had 500+ high speed pursuits, resulting in three suspect deaths and three civilian deaths. Additionally, nine civilians, 14 troopers, and 83 suspects were injured. and easily over 1,000 vehicles trashed.

Each of these videos puts most film car chases to shame. There must be 20 channels dedicated to this. Participating states I've seen are mostly Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Michigan, and California. But any agency can publish a video, particularly if there is a shooting death and an official investigation.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#317

Post by krapp »

krapp wrote: post #141
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we blame lead for the US’ electoral landscape too?

No. Much of the American electoral landscape is still shaped by the systemic remnants of slavery, reconstruction and segregation, and the post-Trump landscape by the cultural trauma of having elected a black president. Although I'm sure all of the lead poisoning didn't help.

i don't know why there are two copies of this comment now, I didn't post it twice.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#318

Post by sethammons »

motorest wrote: post #260
dcow wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may have swung the pendulum a little too far towards deliberate, though. The birthrate right now is below replacement rate, meaning that if we keep going like this (even if the birthrate doesn't keep trending down and holds steady) that society will die off. We need to figure out how to build an economy and society that can facilitate deliberate responsible parentage younger and more often. Luckily we have generat…

> We may have swung the pendulum a little too far towards deliberate, though. The birthrate right now is below replacement rate, meaning that if we keep going like this (even if the birthrate doesn't keep trending down and holds steady) that society will die off. The US alone doubled it's population since the 1950s. Enough scaremongering.

So we need a Thanos snap and go to half the population to recreate the 1950s growth economy?

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#319

Post by Aeolun »

bluGill wrote: post #55
strict9 wrote: post #12

> Rapidly declining numbers of youth are committing crimes, getting arrested, and being incarcerated. This matters because young offenders are the raw material that feeds the prison system: As one generation ages out, another takes its place on the same horrid journey. Another factor which will soon impact this, if it isn't already, is the rapidly changing nature of youth. Fertility rates have been dropping since 200…

> the act of having a child is much more deliberate and the parents likely having more resources This is both good and bad. Having a child is very difficult, but it gets harder as you get older. You lack a lot of monitory resources as a teen or the early 20s, but you have a lot more energy, as you get older your body starts decaying you will lack energy. A kid had at 40 will still be depending on your when you are 55…

I concur. Kids would have been much better at 20 than at 30. I can barely keep up with what they want to do now. If you live in a decent country it’s not even that expensive. Most states really want people to have children, so the basics are often supported or free.
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