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The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

kaveland.no

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Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#311

Post by MacsHeadroom »

yencabulator wrote: post #302
astrange wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at this point even Disney is accusing AI of violating their copyrights "even" is odd there, of course Disney is accusing them of violating copyright, that's what Disney does. > AI is getting better at data laundering and hiding evidence of infringement, but ultimately it's collecting and regurgitating copyrighted content. That's not the standard for copyright infringement; AI is a transformative use. Similarly, if…

> AI is a transformative use. Reproducing a movie still well enough that I honestly wouldn't know which one is the original is transformative?

The still is not transformative but the model reproducing it is obviously transformative. Other general purpose tools can be used to infringe and yet are non-infringing as well.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#312

Post by yencabulator »

Llamamoe wrote: post #135
sheiyei wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YET.

It's very possible that they never will, that instead the advertising will be so subtle nobody will be able to detect it. Including phrases similar to what products, brands, and their actual ads use in positive contexts, sentences that don't mention but make you think of products, being just slightly likely to bring a brand up than its competitor, and a tiny bit more critical of it, etc. The goal isn't to have an ad-…

That still sounds like AIs attempting to sell you something, to me.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#313

Post by yencabulator »

crazygringo wrote: post #244
karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

> The amount of money it's burned on this is giant It's big, but it's honestly not that big. Most importantly, costs will quickly come down as we realize the limits of the models, the algorithms are optimized and even more-dedicated hardware is built. There's no reason to think it isn't sustainable, it will add up just fine. But yes, it will attract a ton of advertising, the same curve every service goes through, lik…

Product placement in movies and such has been a thing for a long time now. At best you can hope that your prompts will be classified as factual-vs-entertainment, and the product placement will only happen in the entertainment ones.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#314

Post by krisoft »

JohnMakin wrote: post #171
krisoft wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is this instinct? "The rules were you guys weren't going to fact check." The instinct is about pointing out factual inaccuracies. What they wrote is either correct, or not. If it is not, and someone knows better they can and should point that out. If you, or some other commenter, have a fuzzy feeling that google is worse than it used to be you are free to write that. You are perfectly entitled to that opinion.…

Other than the fact the parent comment to this subthread is posting a literal factual innacuracy regarding the history of ads on google - It’s not just one guy’s “fuzzy feeling.” It’s been written about in so many thousands of words over the last two years and is the general sentiment across the tech space. It’s sort of the major reason big companies like chatGPT, and smaller ones like Kagi are trying to swoop in and…

> Other than the fact the parent comment to this subthread is posting a literal factual innacuracy regarding the history of ads on google

Sounds like it should be very easy to counter their argument then.

For my education could you tell me which part of their message is inaccurate? The “Google was founded in 1998” or the “and you could buy ads on the search results page in 2000.” part?

> You are also making an assertion that you’re free to back with evidence, that google and google products are not noticeably worse than 10 years ago.

I did not make such an assertion. Where in my comment do you think i’m making that assertion?

> You proclaiming “it’s always been this way”

I’m sorry but who are you quoting? Did you perhaps misclicked which comment you wanted to respond to?

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#315

Post by krisoft »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #168
krisoft wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is this instinct? "The rules were you guys weren't going to fact check." The instinct is about pointing out factual inaccuracies. What they wrote is either correct, or not. If it is not, and someone knows better they can and should point that out. If you, or some other commenter, have a fuzzy feeling that google is worse than it used to be you are free to write that. You are perfectly entitled to that opinion.…

Except that jkaptur is the one making up false statements, and then providing "citations" that contradict him. I don't think an instinct to point out inaccuracies can explain that. There would have to be inaccuracies to point out first.

> Except that jkaptur is the one making up false statements, and then providing "citations" that contradict him.

I believe I have covered that case in my comment. Let me quote the relevant part here for you: “What they wrote is either correct, or not. If it is not, and someone knows better they can and should point that out.”

That being said could you help me by pointing out the inaccuracy in jkaptur’s comment? It seems fairly simple and as far as I can see well supported by the source.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#316

Post by jedbrooke »

collingreen wrote: post #49
jedbrooke wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not quite ads in LLMS, but I had an interesting experience with google maps the other day. the directions voice said "in 100 feet, turn left at the ". Normally it would say "at the traffic light" or similar. And this wasn't some easy to miss hidden street, it was just a normal intersection. I can only hope they aren't changing the routes yet to make you drive by the highest bidder

This is devilish. I'm adding your idea to my torment nexus list.

oof, I’m not sure if I’m proud or ashamed of having an idea in the “torment nexus”. I believe I heard of the idea in some of the discussion surrounding a patent from an automaker to use microphones in the car for a data source for targeted ads. Combine that with self driving cars and you could have a car that takes a sliiight detour to look at “points of interest”

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#317

Post by lipowitz »

Mistletoe wrote: post #308
k__ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Gemini Pro requires a monthly subscription. Seems like a pretty straightforward business model.

How many would really pay though? I certainly wouldn't. Would you pay for Google search?

Their ads are very convincing, I'd pay up to 40¢ a month for Gemini to tell me how to recover with a recipe for tomato sauce I accidentally put sugar in, though only in months where I inexplicably add sugar to things.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#318

Post by jay_kyburz »

kulahan wrote: post #298
autoexec wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing as a free lunch after all! if you consider the massive environmental harm AI has and continues to cause, the people whose work has been stolen to create it, the impacts on workers and salaries, and the abuses AI enables that free lunch starts looking more expensive.

The silver lining on this very dark cloud is that it seems to have renewed interest in nuclear power, though that was inevitable with the coming climate crisis I suppose.

Haha, I would have thought the reckless cuts of DOGE or willingness of the current US administration to rely on AI for decision making would have driven home exactly why governments can't be trusted to manage nuclear.

It's just too dangerous to leave it in the hands of people who don't believe in science, and value money, power, and ideology more than anything else.

Its happening now, and there is nothing to stop it happening again in future.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#319

Post by jedbrooke »

jerf wrote: post #167
jedbrooke wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not quite ads in LLMS, but I had an interesting experience with google maps the other day. the directions voice said "in 100 feet, turn left at the ". Normally it would say "at the traffic light" or similar. And this wasn't some easy to miss hidden street, it was just a normal intersection. I can only hope they aren't changing the routes yet to make you drive by the highest bidder

I've had this done at a sufficient variety of different places that I don't think it's advertising. I'm also not particularly convinced any advertisers would pay for "Hey, we're going to direct people to just drive by your establishment, in a context where they have other goals very front-and-center on their mind. We're not going to tell them about the menu or any specials or let you give any custom messages, just te…

Landmark based directions rather than street names does seem like a plausible explanation. I still have some childhood friends whose houses I don’t know the street address but I know how to get there

I still prefer street names since those tend to be well signed (in my area anyway) and tend not to change, whereas the business on the corner might be different a few years from now.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#320

Post by john-h-k »

snickell wrote: post #310
karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

What scares me is that the obvious pool of money to fund the deficit in the cost of operating of LLMs comes from the most subtle native advertising imaginable. Can you resist ads where, say, AirBnB pays OpenAI privately to “dope” the o3 hyperspace such that AirBnB is moved imperceptibly closer to tokens like value and authentic?? How much would AirBnB pay for the intelligence everyone gets all their info from having…

> Can you resist ads where, say, AirBnB pays OpenAI privately to “dope” the o3 hyperspace such that AirBnB is moved imperceptibly closer to tokens like value and authentic??

This would be a very impressive technical feat

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