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Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

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Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#311

Post by vbezhenar »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #273
ponector wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamikaze FPV drones starts from $400 (without warhead), from $1000 if it has 20km of optic fiber or is an interceptor. If it is not a kamikaze, like heavy bomber or reconnaissance - $10k+. Extremely affordable!

How much does 20km of optic fibre weigh? Why don't these fibre strands suffer from the same physical limits as cabling used in suspension bridges? To be clear: I am not doubting that multi-kilometer optic fibre controlled drones do not exist. There are plenty of highly quality news sources and YouTube videos about them.

https://www.wildberries.ru/catalog/423372174/detail.aspx

Weight: 2.2 kg Price: 78 000 ₽ ($1000)

Just to clarify, this 20km fibre spool is installed on the drone itself and unwinds automatically as drone flies.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#312

Post by dash2 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #306
beeflet wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, this drone race is to combat drones what F1 racing is to self driving cars. In order to win in these races, you just need to precisely control speed around well-defined turns and stuff. You don't need to adapt to a new environment. It's not surprising to me that a computer program would win in such a controlled environment. > It allows weak players to have more leverage I think it depends on the dominan…

What point are you trying to make. Because the iron dome is hideously expensive. It costs so much more then the missiles it intercepts that it's worth it for terrorists to fire on israel purely to waste their money. The iranian icbms from Yemen gets shot down by other systems. I don't think they are scaled up versions of the iron dome. What's interesting is the lack of confidence israel has in predicting their trajec…

Aren't lasers here already? There were pictures of Israel using them.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#313

Post by dash2 »

CommanderData wrote: post #285
pjc50 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of money if you're a UK benefits recipient, not a lot of money for a piece of military equipment. Slightly more than the annual allowance of one asylum seeker. Whole program is about a third of the cost of a Type 26 Frigate.

The asylum seeker comparison is interesting. While I want to reduce the number, I can't but help think how we essentially create them in the first place by destroying the countries which create the economic conditions they flee from.

Asylum seekers are not fleeing bad economic conditions, or at least they are claiming not to. Also, we didn't create refugees from Syria or Ukraine - Syria and Russia did.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#314

Post by officeplant »

beeflet wrote: post #303
vbezhenar wrote: post #299

FPVs are the most distinctive element in Russian-Ukrainian war, changing many traditional war dogmas. So far AI in this war wasn't heavily used, FPVs are controlled by humans at both sides. I feel uneasy with more AI tech improving FPVs. It's inevitable, but it'll be utilised by military operations to kill more people, to conduct terror acts, controlled from afar. It allows weak players to have more leverage which is…

I don't know, this drone race is to combat drones what F1 racing is to self driving cars. In order to win in these races, you just need to precisely control speed around well-defined turns and stuff. You don't need to adapt to a new environment. It's not surprising to me that a computer program would win in such a controlled environment. > It allows weak players to have more leverage I think it depends on the dominan…

>I could imagine you could make some device that tracks the drones and shoots them down for much less than the price of a drone.

The cost of a FPV quadcopter is pennies on the dollar cost of a defense system. You can 3D print a dozen frames in hours with a decent printer. Its just bolt on the parts and do a quick function test with a script or controller and its ready for action.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#315

Post by vbezhenar »

pjc50 wrote: post #179
stackedinserter wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. The tires on the planes thing is very clear to anyone who served in russian/soviet army. > Hell, even hobbyist level DIY drone stuff can be easily programmed Lock on a moving target and hit it is not the same as put waypoints in INAV. My point was that there's still no mass adoption of target locking or self-aiming drones, overwhelming majority of hits, on both sides, are done with regular FPV drones with very…

> The tires on the planes thing is very clear to anyone who served in russian/soviet army. Why is this, for the rest of us?

To imitate.

There was order from the higher ups: protect the planes. There was no specific order like "build a garages for planes". So they put tires on planes and called it protection. Now soldiers have to move tires around, fill the journals, sign them up. New procedures are developed. Order is fulfilled. Everyone was happy. May be someone even got a promotion for creating a plane defence system so cheap.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#316

Post by lolc »

worldsayshi wrote: post #288
lolc wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always hear this sneak up thing and think about how birds can be caught with netting. And all the barbed wire in old battlefields. I don't think drones will be able to meaningfully sneak up to a laser. Of course more drones works. But more drones here is less drones there. It means lasers are an effective deterrent against opportunistic attacks.

Sure but i would expect a laser to be at least 10x more expensive than a drone. Would you need 10 sneaky drones to overwhelm a laser?

My theory is that there will be pernicious netting around lasers, and any sneaking drones will tangle themselves up far from the laser. So only straight mass attacks will work. If you have but 10 drones you'll be unlikely to take out a laser I'd say.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#317

Post by pjc50 »

AngryData wrote: post #282
pjc50 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A fast explosive on the back of a neodynium magnet and a few coils of copper can make a hell of an EMP blast. I'm having a hard time believing this is effective. > The only reason we don't use them now is due to all the collateral damage Russians don't care about collateral damage and there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them using such weapons?

Nobody really uses much undirected EM warfare in my opinion because it represents a huge escalation in a war, similar to the use of indiscriminate chemical weapons, or even nuclear weapons. It would be devastating in the local battlefield, potentially frying radio or other equipment depending on the size of the device or how close you could lob it towards the enemy before going off; but with the low wattages many non…

I think you're wildly over stating the effective range of EMP. This isn't Goldeneye.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#318

Post by FridayoLeary »

dash2 wrote: post #312
FridayoLeary wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What point are you trying to make. Because the iron dome is hideously expensive. It costs so much more then the missiles it intercepts that it's worth it for terrorists to fire on israel purely to waste their money. The iranian icbms from Yemen gets shot down by other systems. I don't think they are scaled up versions of the iron dome. What's interesting is the lack of confidence israel has in predicting their trajec…

Aren't lasers here already? There were pictures of Israel using them.

You're right i didn't know that. They are using lasers to fry drones, but not yet against missiles, even though the iron beam was announced 10 years ago. It sounds like the system is still being developed/rolled out. It will be great when it works because finally Israel will have an interceptor that's cheaper then the target.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#319

Post by stackedinserter »

dji4321234 wrote: post #298
stackedinserter wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link literally says: > Технологія нова, потребує вдосконалення і масштабування. > Eng: "The technology is new and will need improvement and scaling" I don't understand what you're trying to prove. They do exist and I never said they don't. They keep popping up here and there, mainly working in demo conditions against static contrast targets. My point was that so far, these things are just curiosities with very l…

> My point was that so far, these things are just curiosities with very limited usage and there's no mass adoption. Make that point, then! Nothing in your original comment suggested this, just hostile dismissal. Now that you’ve written a more substantive comment I think we actually agree overall. Most operations in the Ukraine-Russia war are manual piloting. Autonomy is over-hyped overall so far. However! A large num…

"OTOH there's no mass adoption of autonomous drones after 3+ years of real active war between two technologically advanced nations."

That's what I literally said, what part if it you did not understand?

Do some research, on FO drones too and just stop embarrass yourself.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#320

Post by grues-dinner »

lazide wrote: post #143
energy123 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All hard countered by a laser like the Iron Beam, no? Unless there's a hard counter to the hard counter?

a laser needs a line of sight and dwell time. drones flying 3 ft off the ground, in between bushes and trees, at 100+ mph? not an easy situation. ramp up power levels so dwell time might only be 1/2 second? maybe. but then there is a race for rapid target discrimination. and then ablative armor on the drones (cheap and easy to 3d print), and backup cameras, etc.

Plus artillery shells, cruise missiles, high altitude balloons and various other ways to fill the sky with literally tons of foil, chaff, tiny bits of wire, smoke, ball bearings, blaring radio transmitters, balsa wood dummy gliders, whatever is hoped to disrupt the targeting long enough to sneak something nitrogen-rich near to the fiddly optics.
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