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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#311

Post by neom »

nine_k wrote: post #244
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

The system has effectively failed most everywhere on the West. The post-WWII generations are numerous and have a long life expectancy, apparently longer than the pension systems planned for. Generations that came after them are less numerous, and, in a way, somehow less prosperous. They cannot pay enough to keep the pension systems afloat. The Japanese faced this earlier and harder than Europe, with about 30% of thei…

Do you have a sense of how you see it playing out?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#313

Post by joelthelion »

gandalfian wrote: post #272

Denmark, 6 million wealthy people, 4% economic growth, 1.5% inflation, 2.9% unemployment, national debt of 25% of GDP and budget in surplus. How did it all go so right?

And yet they all have to work like idiots until they're 70, whether they like it or not.

I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#315

Post by tmnvix »

soerxpso wrote: post #196
jampekka wrote: post #119

It's utterly insane that people need to work more and longer as technology increases productivity. A truly dystopian economic system. In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week¹. Now the projection is that we will work more and longer in the future. And what is this labor supposed to even do? How much of even current work really increases wellbeing? Graeber's thesis of bull…

> In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week This projection came true. You can live with a 1930s living standard while working 15 hours per week at a median wage. However, nobody wants to live at a 1930s living standard. It turns out that in aggregate people prefer to spend productivity gains on conveniences and higher standards of living than on working fewer hours.

> This projection came true. You can live with a 1930s living standard while working 15 hours per week at a median wage.

Maybe not if you want to own a home. Asset price inflation is real. If you already own a home, sure.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#316

Post by droopyEyelids »

joelthelion wrote: post #313
gandalfian wrote: post #272

Denmark, 6 million wealthy people, 4% economic growth, 1.5% inflation, 2.9% unemployment, national debt of 25% of GDP and budget in surplus. How did it all go so right?

And yet they all have to work like idiots until they're 70, whether they like it or not. I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.

They’re not working like idiots, they have universal unionization and lots of time off.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#317

Post by markvdb »

deanc wrote: post #60
WA wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the other way around: a few decades ago people retired only a few years earlier, had 5-10 years of retirement and then died. Now people live way longer, but the retirement age never got adjusted properly to the new reality. So 15-20 years of retirement is the new normal. In addition, way fewer young payers for the now old.

Sure. But is that the society we want to live in. Do we not have ambitions to have people work less, enjoy what little life they have more? I'm not saying this is an economically easy problem to solve, but we focus so much on economics and so little on policies that make people happy.

> Do we not have ambitions to have people work less, enjoy what little life they have more?

Isn't that something for the individual to decide, not the collective? Many derive from work a lot of meaning in life. If working is what makes some people happy, it would be nice to not punish people for working until they die.

> I'm not saying this is an economically easy problem to solve, but we focus so much on economics and so little on policies that make people happy.

Absolutely!

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#318

Post by cameldrv »

leereeves wrote: post #251
Calavar wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US docotor shortage is a myth. Wait times are the result of beauracratic nonsense has reduced the efficiency of the existing physician workforce [1, 2]. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/26132... [2] https://hbr.org/2020/03/the-problem-with-u-s-health-care-isn...

I think it would be more accurate to say that there is no shortage of healthcare providers, because there are many NPs and PAs. Without NPs and PAs, I'm sure there would be a shortage of healthcare providers.

In my experience a big part of the problem is specialists. I remember many years ago people were saying that we shouldn't go to a Canadian style single-payer system because Canadians had rationed care and they had to wait six months for a hip replacement.

Well, guess what? I now also have rationed care. I have to wait six months just for a colonoscopy, plus I pay twice as much for the privilege!

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#319

Post by joelthelion »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #316
joelthelion wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they all have to work like idiots until they're 70, whether they like it or not. I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.

They’re not working like idiots, they have universal unionization and lots of time off.

You can have the best working conditions in the world, it still sucks to have to work if you don't want to.
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