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Postgres IDE in VS Code

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Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#311

Post by infamia »

tomnipotent wrote: post #294
ahartmetz wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that all business is "just business". You have tobacco companies and Purdue Pharma on one end of the spectrum and, let's say, Mozilla Corporation and Valve (debatable but I think they're cool) on the other end. And, of course, large companies are kinda many different entities, really. Microsoft has a long history of dishonest behavior, some of it pretty sophisticated and with a long-term view. That ma…

> Microsoft has a long history of dishonest behavior Can you point out such recent behavior that isn't just echoing other peoples opinions from the anti-trust case from over two decades ago? It's been my experience that many people seem to "borrow" their opinion about Microsoft from things they've read rather than personal experience so we keep getting the same low-effort criticism ad nauseam.

VSCode's marketing was that it is an open source editor you could rely upon, complete with open source extensions for popular languages like Python. Then when once it became popular and vscodium was growing in popularity (a vscode fork), MS locked things down. Now the Python extensions are closed source, and MS has artificially prevented vscode forks from using those extensions. A bait and switch if I've ever seen one.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#312

Post by justusthane »

pamelafox wrote: post #256

Congrats to the team on launching this! I was actually the first to demo it, as part of our sponsored session at Microsoft last week. Here's the talk where I used it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Vm2hakkV4 I also did a theater session at our MSFT booth, but the recording isn't up yet. You can follow the steps in this repo to check out all the features that I demo'd, however: https://github.com/Azure-Samples/post…

Hey, just a heads up that your website 404s if visted at "pamelafox.org", which is how it appears in your bio.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#313

Post by koolba »

cerved wrote: post #285
semiquaver wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Isn’t including the canonical state of the database schema in version control along with all the migrations that brought it to that point a completely standard part of every web framework?

I'm more confused why the version control of the thing using the database is including the entire schema of the database in it's repository

It makes it trivial to have pretty diffs of the net result of migrations.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#314

Post by kstrauser »

SahAssar wrote: post #280
dragonwriter wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying being a merchant in the field of software and supply software opens you up to liabilities, and saying “Not my responsibility” does not, in most jurisdictions, actially completely shield you from all of them, correct. This may also, to a lesser extent, be true of people who are not merchants in the field of the product supplied. It’s not the license creating the liability, in either case.

So you are saying that the parts of for example MIT or similar licenses that in clear terms say: "THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN AC…

I'm with you on this one. Consider all the GPL'ed software that IBM distributes via Red Hat.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#315

Post by shawnz »

jiggawatts wrote: post #273
pamelafox wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a developer advocate at Microsoft, and from my perspective, both teams have been putting in a bunch of effort improving their extensions. I participated in usability studies with both the teams behind the SQL Server extension and new PostgreSQL extension, and then once they were ready, I participated in bug bashes. Both teams seem to very much want developers to enjoy their tools, so please do send them feedback…

The problem customers have with these Shiny New Things that Microsoft keeps trying get us to switch to is that they drop features and entire product suites on the floor, even those that aren't officially deprecated and have no equivalent replacements. It's common to see SSRS, SSIS, SSAS in multidimensional mode, etc... simply forgotten about like they no longer exist. Not to mention that SQL "SDK-style" projects only…

I totally agree and I beg you to consider this feedback if you are reading @pamelafox.

The biggest problem with the usability of Microsoft products today is short-sighted thinking. New features, platforms, frameworks etc are launched and then forgotten about just a few years later with no effort to tie into the groundwork of what came before.

You might think this is only a problem for old customers who are already accustomed to the old technologies, but that's not true: it burdens new customers too. There's a few reasons for this that I can think of.

1) It's hard for new customers to know what technologies they should be reaching for in what situations when there's so many different choices.

2) It's hard to find the right documentation for the technology you've picked because you have to browse through a ton of out-of-date documentation that wrongly refers to the deprecated technologies and it's not clear what the current recommendations are.

3) The new stuff is often built without consideration for the ways of thinking that the underlying platform was built with. Thus, you end up with weird idiosyncrasies as you move from one technology to another, which make it hard to learn and hard to use.

4) When you replace the old technologies you lose the benefit of community knowledge on platforms like Stack Overflow, you lose the ability to look at existing open-source projects for guidance, etc. You are basically going into uncharted territory where there are no clearly established patterns in the wild.

So, even new users coming on to your platform suffer from these deficits. That's not to say I don't appreciate all the work on these new powerful technologies like VS Code and .NET Platform and so on, but I think a more long-sighted vision for these products would go a long way. And it's not just a matter of looking forward, since you never know what's going to happen in the future with a product as organizational priorities change. It's also a matter of looking backwards at what came before, at what groundwork was laid by previous efforts, and how it can be best taken advantage of and re-used for future efforts. That is the biggest missing piece at Microsoft today in my opinion.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#316

Post by schrodinger »

cerved wrote: post #285
semiquaver wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Isn’t including the canonical state of the database schema in version control along with all the migrations that brought it to that point a completely standard part of every web framework?

I'm more confused why the version control of the thing using the database is including the entire schema of the database in it's repository

The database schema of an app is tightly coupled enough to essentially be code, and migrations are also probably checked in. This lets you see how the db schema changes over time -- likely along with the queries using the schema.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#317

Post by [deleted] »

pamelafox wrote: post #256

Congrats to the team on launching this! I was actually the first to demo it, as part of our sponsored session at Microsoft last week. Here's the talk where I used it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Vm2hakkV4 I also did a theater session at our MSFT booth, but the recording isn't up yet. You can follow the steps in this repo to check out all the features that I demo'd, however: https://github.com/Azure-Samples/post…

[deleted]

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#319

Post by tomnipotent »

infamia wrote: post #311
tomnipotent wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft has a long history of dishonest behavior Can you point out such recent behavior that isn't just echoing other peoples opinions from the anti-trust case from over two decades ago? It's been my experience that many people seem to "borrow" their opinion about Microsoft from things they've read rather than personal experience so we keep getting the same low-effort criticism ad nauseam.

VSCode's marketing was that it is an open source editor you could rely upon, complete with open source extensions for popular languages like Python. Then when once it became popular and vscodium was growing in popularity (a vscode fork), MS locked things down. Now the Python extensions are closed source, and MS has artificially prevented vscode forks from using those extensions. A bait and switch if I've ever seen on…

> VSCode's marketing

Point to this marketing. Here's the blog announcement on the 1.0 releases - what I can't find are any examples of Microsoft over-promising.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160422123116/https://code.visu...

> MS locked things down... and MS has artificially prevented vscode forks from using those extensions

Or like any growing and maturing project they established boundaries - one of which was that the plugin marketplace was proprietary, which is a perfectly reasonable position. Their existing and continued contributions to vscode are significant, so I think they can be allowed to keep some cards up their sleeves like the plugin marketplace or their Python extension. I'm just flabbergasted at this idea that somehow we're entitled to everything vscode-adjacent "just because", or that Microsoft is obligated to subsidize other billion-dollar business by giving them free features for their vscode forks.

> A bait and switch if I've ever seen one.

Where's the bait? Where's the switch? If the best you have is that they released a closed source plugin I'm going to bucket this as another borrowed opinion.

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