Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. You’re watching edited videos.
No, this is always the defense people come up when RFK says something insane. It's not deepfake, it's not edited, he is just actually a crazy person. Yes, he truly believes HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Yes, he truly believes vaccines don't work. We should not be listening to him on anything, let alone things that actually matter. There are people living on the side of the road with more credibility and reasonableness than…
U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
311–320 of 377 posts
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. You’re watching edited videos.
As far as I can tell I've heard all the words from that man and his surrogates. What are the words that have been said which I have not heard, which would clear all this up?
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It is well understood already that the number of autistic people is not actually increasing. What is increasing is our understanding of it and the number of diagnostics. I see this idea thrown around whenever this topic is brought up, but this is just a contemporary opinion of certain researchers and science commentators. It is both unprovable and unfalsifiable. >Autism is not a disease, it's a neurodivergence, and…
Please read through this page shared here on HN a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43813441
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society, he is talking about the 26% of people with profound autism. Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge.
> Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge. No, people in leadership positions have a duty to lead - justifying themselves and attempting to get buy in from everyone . Especially so on sensitive topics that we're societally squeamish about due to some very real historic horrors. I know the memetic field is a bit hazy from the sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth…
This is exactly the same thing. In the full speech RFK makes it clear who he is and is not talking about, I’m torn on whether our leaders need to rewrite their speeches for sound bites.
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#315Here are a few examples of positive social credit:
Do you serve your nation in the military?
Do you bear and raise children? Are you a caregiver for other types of dependents (parents, disabled)?
Are you able-bodied and employed or at least employable? How stable is your job?
Are you currently enrolled as a student, seeking a degree or graduation?
Are you in stable housing; can you meet your personal needs daily without difficulty?
Are you free of mental illness, and medications thereof?
Have you got a criminal record, imprisonment or legal troubles in your past?
So you can see that autistic people will typically start with poor social credit, and it will not be possible for them to get on top of that.
Now a wealthy nation in peacetime can afford to do the "Welfare State" thing and support people with negative social credit, due to pro-life values and the fact that you can indeed exploit the poor and infirm for Medicaid and SNAP bucks, no matter what (RFK's claim that "they don't pay taxes" is specious if they're consumers).
But I think the USA can no longer claim to be "wealthy" and our claim on peace is tenuous at best. When those two run out then what is left? Nothing but a little Aktion T4. Difficult decisions will need to be made and this is why people with "poor social credit" are going to be under the microscope.
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I can tell I've heard all the words from that man and his surrogates. What are the words that have been said which I have not heard, which would clear all this up?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43826940
Here's the transcript: https://singjupost.com/rfk-jr-holds-press-conference-on-new-...
When he speaks here he says things like:
So about 25% of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet trained, and have other stereotypical features, headbanging, tactile and light sensitivities, stimming, toe-locking, et cetera.
Aside from not being toilet trained, the rest of that applies to me. So am I "profoundly autistic"? I mean, maybe but at the same time I don't think that's really what he means. So you can see my confusion. Is he talking about me or isn't he? Because he's listing off things I do all the time, and calling the these features of "profound autism".He also says:
"with full-blown autism, headbanging, non-verbal, non-toilet trained, stimming, toe walking, these other stereotypical features. "
Again, not incredibly clear by my reading. Very broad brush being applied here.In the whole speech, he doesn't refer to autism as a "spectrum" disorder once until he's prompted by a reporter in those terms. Telling, because he clearly views autism as a binary of high/low functioning or high/low needs, which it's not. So again, painting autism with a broad brush.
Then there's this:
Then you have to ask yourself, why is it so pervasive? Why has it been thrown up against us for so many years? Clearly, there are industries. This is coming from an environmental toxin. Somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food. It’s to their benefit to normalize it, to say, this is all normal. It’s always been here.
Yeah, so let me get this straight, RFK says this and yet it's the autism community who you think are the conspiracy theorists?Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most profoundly autistic people don’t go the bathroom unassisted, or pay their own taxes. That’s true. As long as you define "ability to go to bathroom and pay taxes" as profound autism, that's true. But as I said, autism is a spectrum -- there is no such thing as "profoundly autistic". That's not a thing. You're again trying to make a dichotomy, and this is a misconception both you and Kennedy share. > Wild conspi…
> As long as you define "ability to go to bathroom and pay taxes" as profound autism, that's true Yes. That's literally the meaning of profound - has trouble with common functioning. Your position seems to be that a group - profound autistic people - that is defined by it's functional ability is being mischaracterised as having low functional ability. Mine is that that is literally what profoundly autistic' means. >…
No my position is that you've created a tautology, and so the phrase "profoundly autistic" doesn't mean anything. You're profoundly autistic if you can't function, and if you can't function you're profoundly autistic. So what?
How does one measure "functional ability" -- functioning how and where and when? In a capitalist context? Academic context? social context? Where is the line? What's the cut off? Who is doing the assessing? Who is coming up with the criteria?
> But conspiracy theories about death camps are not one of my concerns.
I understand you don't think it's likely and don't care to discuss such matters, but you're not going to convince me these people are looking out for the best interests of autistic people. They're looking to be "right" about vaccines, and they're going to use autistic people however they can to get the answers they want.
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are going to 1) propose to make a list of people with autism 2) propose to send them to a concentration camp where where they will be treated Then you had better damn well be prepared to answer specifically how what you're doing is different from what the Nazis did. If you're not prepared to deal seriously and substantively with that very relevent historical precedent , you have no business proposing the regis…
> propose to send them to a concentration camp Nobody is doing that.
On the one hand they've proposed the autism database.
On the other hand they've proposed the "wellness farms" for drug addicts.
All that's left is for the right hand to start picking up what the left hand is putting down and we are there.
Moreover, they have been demonstrating that they're willing to torture those they consider "subhuman". Look at how they are treating immigrants.
Autistic people are used to being abused in awful ways, so when we see those immigrants being abused and abducted by the Trump administration, it's not very hard to see they would be willing to do this to autistic people. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to recognize they're all awful people who are currently unrestrained by the law and general decency.
The conspiracy theory, such as it is, is this: these people look like Nazis, they sound like Nazis, and they act like Nazis, so their proposals related to autism are to be taken with a giant Nazi sized grain of salt.
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As long as you define "ability to go to bathroom and pay taxes" as profound autism, that's true Yes. That's literally the meaning of profound - has trouble with common functioning. Your position seems to be that a group - profound autistic people - that is defined by it's functional ability is being mischaracterised as having low functional ability. Mine is that that is literally what profoundly autistic' means. >…
> Your position seems to be No my position is that you've created a tautology, and so the phrase "profoundly autistic" doesn't mean anything. You're profoundly autistic if you can't function, and if you can't function you're profoundly autistic. So what? How does one measure "functional ability" -- functioning how and where and when? In a capitalist context? Academic context? social context? Where is the line? What's…
That is a definition, not a tautology. Though I suspect the way this conversation will go is that we will argue over the definition of definition.
I’ll bow out, but I do share your concerns about people looking to be right about vaccines. I feel they may be right (and also that they may be wrong), but as I’ve mentioned in another thread, I’m concerned they’re finding research to support their conclusion (mercury and aluminium poisoning) rather than approaching the problem more rigorously.
Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
> propose to send them to a concentration camp Nobody is doing that.
This entire term so far has been one ratchet after another of "they will never do that" followed promptly by "wow, they just did that, nothing we can do about it now except deal with the fallout!" On the one hand they've proposed the autism database. On the other hand they've proposed the "wellness farms" for drug addicts. All that's left is for the right hand to start picking up what the left hand is putting down an…
Wellness farms for drug users seems reasonable.
They’ve cancelled the tracking database due to people’s concerns about privacy.