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DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

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Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#311

Post by VladVladikoff »

bustling-noose wrote: post #309

Music on iPod or a Walkman or a radio is great. But have you ever attended live music shows ? Have you ever ‘felt’ the music ? Even someone at a local bar singing feels and hits different. AI can never bring feelings. That will never change. Even science fiction agrees with that. So bring all the AI you want everywhere, some things are irreplaceable by electronic world.

I expect this type of stuff to be used for elevator and telephone hold music. Or even perhaps indie video games where they don’t have a budget for music.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#312

Post by whywhywhywhy »

stavros wrote: post #234
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musicians are actually a lot poorer than they should be, the label system is a complete scam and syphons off almost all the value created before the artist sees any for close to no benefit.

If labels offer so little benefit, why have they not become obsolete? Nowadays artists can self-publish with minimal cost, so why haven't we been seeing independent artists that are massively popular?

>If labels offer so little benefit, why have they not become obsolete?

Because artists are preyed upon early in their career into signing contracts that encompass the most profitable years of their lives and often the output of those years forever for small loans and promises of success.

The way these label deals are structured, if VCs in the tech world did the same it would be like having the investor of your very first failed company idea still taking money from you for startup attempt four that actually was successful and owning a chunk of that by default.

Of course I don't think musicians are blameless, they signed the deals and often regret it or go to huge expense of time and money (e.g Taylor Swift) to pull their work back into their own ownership.

> why have they not become obsolete? Nowadays artists can self-publish with minimal cost

You cannot self publish to Spotify without giving money to the major labels via arms of the majors like DistroKid. Spotify has no "Upload" button.

> so why haven't we been seeing independent artists that are massively popular?

There are: Frank Ocean, Tyler The Creator, Macklemore, Chance the Rapper, etc.

But if you're independent you're swimming against the tide because major labels own and scoop cream at all levels, from LiveNation to DistroKid to being signed on the label itself.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#313

Post by haswell »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #310
haswell wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s an even bigger issue than this. Many people would not know how to live under such a system. By this, I mean that I strongly believe people would become severely depressed or insanely stir crazy. I’ve been on an extended sabbatical after 20 years in tech. The first year was magical. “I could do this forever” I told myself, and actually considered it. The second year was more complicated. I could feel m…

This is what they keep telling us. My hunch is that people will find plenty of "work" to do in their families, their communities, in creative pursuits. Let's find out.

My point is that I was firmly in the “I want to retire early” category, found myself with the means to do so, and that this wasn’t theoretical for me.

But the thing I imagined is not the reality that I found.

I realize “they” have other motives for convincing people such a future is a problem. But that doesn’t remove what I truly believe would be a hellish reality for many.

I’m all for pushing society in a less work-centric direction and think current work culture is toxic. That’s a big part of the reason I burned out and went on sabbatical.

But I’m also pretty worried about what a sudden shift without careful planning may bring about. I know I certainly didn’t have the habits/skills in place to navigate it in a healthy way.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#314

Post by esafak »

haswell wrote: post #306
SequoiaHope wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you don’t have more time for music is not technological, it’s social. We have enough technology to offer a basic life for everyone for free, but we have not agreed that doing so is worthwhile.

I think there’s an even bigger issue than this. Many people would not know how to live under such a system. By this, I mean that I strongly believe people would become severely depressed or insanely stir crazy. I’ve been on an extended sabbatical after 20 years in tech. The first year was magical. “I could do this forever” I told myself, and actually considered it. The second year was more complicated. I could feel m…

You have to retire at some point so prepare for it. Some people do indeed not cope well.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#315

Post by metalman »

margorczynski wrote: post #275
antononcube wrote: post #110

The creation of music by AI brings to mind a quote from David Bowie: “Music itself is going to become like running water or electricity. So take advantage of these last few years, because this will never happen again. Get ready for a lot of touring, because that's the only unique experience left.” While Bowie had different reasoning for making that statement, it's interesting to think that with AI-generated music, hi…

Actually from what I've heard from musicians is that digital made living just from music really hard. First it was piracy and now it is streaming, the days where an average whole band could live off playing and creating music are gone. AI will be the nail to the coffin where it'll almost completely becomes a hobby.

The anouncement of the "death of the band" is premature.I dont believ this for a second, nothing can replace live music played by humans, as the experience and the very real positive benifits of an audience comming together can not be digitised, in spite of the many attempts to package high tech simulated environments. There are hundreds of thousands of full time touring musical groups world wide, and millions of music festivals every year. Just because the bar is high, very high, to become a working musician, and has been forever, does not give credence to the notion that some nameless randoms get to make the call because there tube vid got 3 views.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#316

Post by larodi »

tmountain wrote: post #155
larodi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps much of what humans be doing in this regard is - validation, and the physical work left. But we're not there yet, of course. Vibe coding takes a lot of manual labor, and it's nowhere near for the actually complex tasks such as... multi-part CTEs munching gigs of spatial-temporal data. Speaking of AI in music - well, perhaps many will welcome some tools when you have to: - clear hissing - process levels in ted…

I’ve been writing software for 25 years and am “vibe coding” a fairly complex game in my spare time. It saves time on boilerplate but it is absolutely not capable of doing all the work. There’s still some assembly required and doing so requires domain knowledge and expertise. Also, prompting properly requires the same. If I were to compare the experience to building a house, I’m now the foreman—and no longer doing th…

There’s no such thing as vibe composing music, even though experimenting with knobs is not writing notes, and even though writing notes seems like writing programs.

À music score may be complete since very first attempts at it, while arrangement and sound désign may be added later. Writing actually catchy music is much more difficult than writing a todo app even though they may seem similar in engineering complexity.

Coding is not composing and vice versa. Code which produces music scores is not what audio models do.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#317

Post by fidotron »

eucryphia wrote: post #7

You know what the biggest problem with pushing all-things-Al is? Wrong direction. I want Al to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for Al to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes. - Joanna Maciejewska You could add music

The underlying problem is that humans consistently underestimate how difficult some of our "lowest" functions are, like sorting out socks and folding the laundry.

Canonical rant on the subject from a previous AI wave: https://people.csail.mit.edu/brooks/papers/elephants.pdf

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#318

Post by stavros »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #312
stavros wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If labels offer so little benefit, why have they not become obsolete? Nowadays artists can self-publish with minimal cost, so why haven't we been seeing independent artists that are massively popular?

>If labels offer so little benefit, why have they not become obsolete? Because artists are preyed upon early in their career into signing contracts that encompass the most profitable years of their lives and often the output of those years forever for small loans and promises of success. The way these label deals are structured, if VCs in the tech world did the same it would be like having the investor of your very f…

Doesn't DistroKid (or CDBaby) cost like $20? Last time I looked to upload something, that's the price I saw.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#319

Post by haswell »

esafak wrote: post #314
haswell wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s an even bigger issue than this. Many people would not know how to live under such a system. By this, I mean that I strongly believe people would become severely depressed or insanely stir crazy. I’ve been on an extended sabbatical after 20 years in tech. The first year was magical. “I could do this forever” I told myself, and actually considered it. The second year was more complicated. I could feel m…

You have to retire at some point so prepare for it. Some people do indeed not cope well.

Absolutely. But most retirement planning doesn’t cover 40-60 years of time. Most retirement planning also assumes a period of time when a person is gradually losing their ability to fully engage with society.

It’s a whole different ballgame when the period of time involves a person’s “peak” years. Many people have a drive that they haven’t yet satisfied in their 20s/30s/40s. This isn’t to say this drive can’t be channeled into something other than a traditional job. I’m just saying we don’t currently have societal structures and norms such that an entire population will know what to do.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#320

Post by giraffe_lady »

haswell wrote: post #313
giraffe_lady wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what they keep telling us. My hunch is that people will find plenty of "work" to do in their families, their communities, in creative pursuits. Let's find out.

My point is that I was firmly in the “I want to retire early” category, found myself with the means to do so, and that this wasn’t theoretical for me. But the thing I imagined is not the reality that I found. I realize “they” have other motives for convincing people such a future is a problem. But that doesn’t remove what I truly believe would be a hellish reality for many. I’m all for pushing society in a less work-…

I was basically unemployable due to health problems for several years before covid made work from home normal. It's not really theoretical for me either.

It was, all things considered, great. I have never been more involved in the communities and connections that I find valuable and fulfilling. I learned several complex skills that continue to benefit me and the people around me, I taught and mentored young people some of whom are now adults entering professional careers based on that momentum.

I don't believe either of our individual experiences are really a good predictor of universal human experience in this area. Do you?

> I’m not convinced that we’re equipped to live satisfying lives without some form of striving for survival

If we're all struggling for survival, some of us will fail. I invite you to dream bigger about what we're "equipped for." One of the very few universal human traits across time and culture is refusal to be bound by our biological history.

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