Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

mattgiustwilliamson.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 363 posts

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#311

Post by sokoloff »

vaidhy wrote: post #284
pembrook wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

Why should there be a globally relevant software company? How about locally relevant software companies? If it is successful enough to pay for its own expenses and decent income for the employees/founders, it is a good business.

Because software has enormous fixed costs and low marginal costs, so spreading the fixed costs across more users improves the economics, often by a large factor.

It’s not that it’s strictly required, but it’s so beneficial that it’s often chosen.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#312

Post by pembrook »

dinoqqq wrote: post #265
pembrook wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

You probably missed SAP then. > The company is the largest non-American software company by revenue and the world's third-largest publicly traded software company by revenue. As of December 2023, SAP is the largest German company by market capitalization. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP

SAP predates the personal computer and the rise of the VC model in the 80s.

Its a bad sign if you have to go back over 50 years.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#313

Post by pembrook »

ks2048 wrote: post #283
pembrook wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

> I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. In the US, people also tell you pay an expensive lawyer to deal with government paperwork.

Not at the early stages.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#314

Post by gamblor956 »

npcomplexity1 wrote: post #308
gamblor956 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of tax craziness (most crazy to least): 1) India. Lots of conflicting laws. Lots of conflicting paperwork. And as a foreign company you'll probably pay more in bribes ("voluntary non-disclosed payments to ensure success") than you would in taxes, because the alternative is that they send the police after your local employees and maybe try to have the local court seize your property. 2) EU. The VATOSS is stra…

Having formed multiple companies in India - my experience was that I did not pay any bribes and it was relatively easy (not as easy as USA - where too I have formed multiple companies)

Consider yourself lucky. I've never worked for a company that's been able to avoid paying bribes in India.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#315

Post by pcthrowaway »

pembrook wrote: post #312
dinoqqq wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably missed SAP then. > The company is the largest non-American software company by revenue and the world's third-largest publicly traded software company by revenue. As of December 2023, SAP is the largest German company by market capitalization. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP

SAP predates the personal computer and the rise of the VC model in the 80s. Its a bad sign if you have to go back over 50 years.

SUSE was founded (checks) 33 years ago if you want something more recent.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#316

Post by epolanski »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #291
epolanski wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can create a full blow corporation in Delaware from Europe in an easier way that you can open here. Anyway, the benefits go beyond how easy it is to open, the most important things are moving forward with things like stock options, issuing shares, creating preferred ones, etc, etc, taxes access to funding, etc..

You’d just be moving the complexity around if you did that. If you’re residing and working in Europe then having your company in the US will cause all kinds of tax and logistical issues that you’re probably not qualified to deal with. Probably much less so than dealing with the local paperwork. Everything your company does will now be scrutinized and has to fit through two separate tax and legal systems. Nothing simp…

I have multiple friends that incorporated their companies in US from Europe.

It isn't a particularly worse arrangement with founders, and, again corporate law in Europe is really behind, making things like attracting talent for equity much more difficult.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#317

Post by grandempire »

beambot wrote: post #147

https://paulgraham.com/growth.html "A startup is a company designed to grow fast. Being newly founded does not in itself make a company a startup. Nor is it necessary for a startup to work on technology, or take venture funding, or have some sort of "exit." The only essential thing is growth. Everything else we associate with startups follows from growth."

I believe there is also a quote from him about a startup being the band that sells a million records, not the bad that plays at weddings.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#318

Post by 1659447091 »

ks2048 wrote: post #283
pembrook wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

> I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. In the US, people also tell you pay an expensive lawyer to deal with government paperwork.

I may be misunderstanding, is this statement suggesting that the advice to use lawyers in Germany is simply standard op procedure, and not even remotely necessary? As it really isn't necessary in the US, especially with how easy it is to change or update later if it gets to that point.

I have incorporated (s-corp), created a couple LLC's and briefly used a sole proprietorship with a DBA filed in my county - this one was by far the most annoying, time consuming, and confusing one. The state filings took maybe 10-15 minutes of filling out straight forward online forms, $1 (at the time for a name search) and $300 to file. Soon after I was the paper owner of a legal corporation (or LLC's). The most complicated part was understanding taxes, but the application of taxes is separate from starting the company (assuming you understand the best tax structure for what you are doing). If anything, an Accountant is way more important imo.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#319

Post by wombatpm »

zwnow wrote: post #175
Bewelge wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the process is unnecessarily complex, but I also think hiring someone for that would be the wise choice in most places anyway. And even in Germany hiring someone for that would probably amount to paying 500-1000€ for the whole registration of the company instead of doing everything yourself and only paying the 100-200€ notary fees. It's not as bad as you might think. > I will never try it in my home coun…

I never thought about founding my own company while living in Germany. I hate this countries bureaucracy to the core. If I ever wanted to found one, I'd first move out of Germany.

German Bureaucracy: see Th Trial by Franz Kafka for a fictional view that is surprisingly accurate

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#320

Post by nickpsecurity »

ks2048 wrote: post #283
pembrook wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

> I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. In the US, people also tell you pay an expensive lawyer to deal with government paperwork.

There's a lot of small, one-person shops that manage to make LLC's and stuff in the U.S.. There's books on how to do it yourself. In my state, there's little paperwork, too.

Germany sounds way more difficult.

Post reply on HN