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An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#311

Post by inetknght »

kehrin wrote: post #226
eps wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox using your IP address ... to show you an ad Why do you imply that Firefox showing ads is acceptable ?

They have been doing for at least a decade by now (e.g Amazon). So why imply it suddenly isn’t acceptable to show ads (in any form)?

> They have been doing for at least a decade by now (e.g Amazon). So why imply it suddenly isn’t acceptable to show ads (in any form)?

Because it isn't acceptable.

The first thing I've done (for years now) when configuring Firefox is to turn off many of the defaults. Advertisements, pocket, search engine, online spell checker, translator, blah blah blah.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#312

Post by 256_ »

I see a bunch of people saying that Firefox "needs to make money" or something to that effect, like they've never heard of free software.

When Flash was killed, enthusiasts re-implemented it entirely from scratch. I'm sure if Mozilla exploded today people would take the source code and continue maintaining Firefox. I'm aware maintaining a browser is complicated, but maintaining an operating system is even more-so, and that never stopped GNU.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#313

Post by brookst »

inetknght wrote: post #310
brookst wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two ways to generate revenue: direct and indirect. Nobody will pay for a browser. I don’t use Firefox and this whole thing is distasteful, but I’m not sure how they’re supposed to cover operating expenses without indirect monetization, or what for of indirect other than ads would work.

> Nobody will pay for a browser. Speak for yourself. Give me a browser that clearly and unambiguously does not sell my usage of it in any way, and I will give you a monthly subscription.

Well yeah and I do pay for Kagi but would still say “nobody will pay for a search engine” using “nobody” in the “not enough people to scale a mass market business” sense.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#314

Post by bonoboTP »

saghm wrote: post #207
move-on-by wrote: post #4

> The reason we’ve stepped away from making blanket claims that “We never sell your data” is because, in some places, the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is broad and evolving. As an example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) defines “sale” as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or othe…

They also said "Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about “selling data”)", and I'm struggling to fathom what they could possibly think that "most people" think selling data could mean other than "giving your data to someone else for compensation", which seems pretty much exactly what the California law says. Yes, it's embedded in some legalese, but surely Mozilla has lawyers?

Most people don't think about this stuff and are simply uninformed. Referring to what "most people think" is a cop-out from their side.

But I think the sense Mozilla are referring to is the more obvious and over-the-top things like selling your name, phone number, email, postal address, your Amazon purchasing history, or to ramp it up more, your passwords, your credit card info etc.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#315

Post by dharmab »

Idesmi wrote: post #294
doright wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it have been better if Firefox/Mozilla went under as a result of never compromising on their principles for income 5 years ago, as opposed to continuing to exist in this less than optimal form today? If the business incompetence of where to put all the existing money were resolved. I feel like the people who understand Mozilla's true principles have long since moved on by this point, and the crowd of those unaw…

> the people who understand Mozilla's true principles have long since moved on by this point Where to?

I'm really liking Orion browser, unfortunately it doesn't support Windows or Linux yet

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#316

Post by mschuster91 »

brookst wrote: post #267
ttpphd wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Why is my browser serving me advertising in the first place? Because Mozilla is an advertising company now.

There are only two ways to generate revenue: direct and indirect. Nobody will pay for a browser. I don’t use Firefox and this whole thing is distasteful, but I’m not sure how they’re supposed to cover operating expenses without indirect monetization, or what for of indirect other than ads would work.

> There are only two ways to generate revenue: direct and indirect. Nobody will pay for a browser.

There's a third way: screw revenue, dump all staff not related to browser development and documentation (MDN) and look for government grants to fund that.

Especially the EU may be a target for a well-written proposal, given the political atmosphere it would make sense to have at least one browser engine that is not fundamentally tied to the US and its plethora of bullshit like NSLs.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#317

Post by simpaticoder »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #304

> we’ve removed the reference to the Acceptable Use Policy because it seems to be causing more confusion than clarity. Weak sauce. Mozilla ought to be apologising here, not blaming its community for being upset at Mozilla's efforts to impose restrictions on its binaries that are in direct conflict with the core principles of Free and Open Source software. We were discussing this yesterday. [0] It's not 'confusion'. W…

This is the upside of doing what I did yesterday, which is to realize Mozilla cannot recover from this, which makes such follow-on mistakes easier to bear. The shock has been absorbed. I have installed a few alternatives and will be deleting FF as soon as possible. I will also continue to advocate for privacy and user-rights preserving software - a set that does not include anything from Mozilla. The bridge is well-and-truly burned. They had a 2% marketshare based on goodwill with privacy rights geeks, and managed to destroy it overnight. There is no recovery for them.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#318

Post by wkat4242 »

bonoboTP wrote: post #314
saghm wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also said "Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about “selling data”)", and I'm struggling to fathom what they could possibly think that "most people" think selling data could mean other than "giving your data to someone else for compensation", which seems pretty much exactly what the California law says. Yes, it's embedded in some legalese, but surely Mozilla has lawyers?

Most people don't think about this stuff and are simply uninformed. Referring to what "most people think" is a cop-out from their side. But I think the sense Mozilla are referring to is the more obvious and over-the-top things like selling your name, phone number, email, postal address, your Amazon purchasing history, or to ramp it up more, your passwords, your credit card info etc.

The latter is a pretty high bar. Even Google doesn't do that.

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#319

Post by [deleted] »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #240
scottbez1 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if everyone switches to Librewolf, Librewolf will die because Mozilla will no longer make money and won't be able to devote resources towards maintaining upstream Firefox. I use Firefox. I hate ads. I don't love that Mozilla engages in some level of affiliate deals to pay the bills, but it's the only viable alternative to Google controlling the entire web and doing much worse tracking/advertising at this point, u…

> Mozilla will no longer make money Mozilla could have added years ago a donation or subscription to fund the development of Firefox, but they don't want that. Mozilla wants all the money for its charitable activities instead. There will be a time when they have no money anymore, but it's only their fault.

[deleted]

Re: An update on Mozilla's terms of use for Firefox

#320

Post by r2b2 »

Firefox should make it clear that Firefox (browser) will not collect, transmit, nor sell user data beyond what is technically required for interaction between the browser and other computers over networks.

Anything less and people stop using Firefox.

If other Mozilla services need broader terms, those should be separate.

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