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Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

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Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#311

Post by jcarrano »

masijo wrote: post #291
jcarrano wrote: post #261

Let's see it another way: there's absolutely no way that in the 2-3 hours the post was up a person not familiar with the gamblecoin ecosystem could purchase $LIBRA, let alone pour thousands of dollars in. The people who lost money are all professional memecoin gamblers, and the ones who pocketed in are obviously connected to the project leaders. Cyptobros want to have unlimited freedom to trade whatever they want wit…

>For all the outrage, I yet have to see a single person in Argentina produce a TXHASH that proves they put money on the project. So, it's OK to participate and promote a memecoin rugpull if they're not from your own country?

No, it's not OK, but I also don't think a president has any responsibility towards gamblers in the US or China. Also, "I invested because the president of a random country told me so" is a pretty bad excuse for losing money.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#312

Post by tombert »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #225
pjc50 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile there's a quid pro quo to avoid prosecuting Eric Adams for bribery if he changes his policies. Absolute banana republic stuff.

That one is such a clear, obvious case of corruption. I wish more people were screaming it from the rooftops. I've told a number of people about it IRL and it's shocking how few know. But I guess that's part of the "flood the zone" tactic of the fascists. For those who haven't been following along, here's the highlights. Adams did some corrupt shit, like really obviously corrupt. Foreign sources made gift offers. Adv…

Yep, Adams is terrible.

To everyone who lives in NYC, remember that there is a primary in June. We can minimize how long this asshole is in power.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#313

Post by simiones »

AlexandrB wrote: post #293
simiones wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends to a great extent on how the money is actually spent. The USA spent huge amounts of money to get out of the Great Depression, much, much more than it was spending before, and it ended up in a much better economic position, despite a gigantic war soon after.

I thought the reason the US ended up with a good economy was because of the war, not despite of it[1]. The war massively ramped up the US's industrial output, and unlike many of the other allied powers there was no need to rebuild once the war ended. [1] https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-american-economy-during-worl...

A war doesn't directly improve the economy. It's spending on industry that was justified by the war (plus national fervor) that helped with this. But building ships and planes and tanks is not fundamentally useful for civilian industry. If the same level of investment had been directed to civilian industries instead of military, the economy would probably have been even higher.

I do agree that the relative value of the US economy shot up directly due to the destruction the war brought to European, Chinese, Japanese, and USSR industry and populations - so if you were discussing things in this sense, I can agree.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#314

Post by liendolucas »

Despite the known facts is absolutely shocking that an economist promotes a cryptocurrency (even worse: a "meme" one that was created minutes before his tweet), as is widely known that there's no value at all in there but pure speculation, that's what puzzles me the most. If people with little knowledge on economics know this how can't he?

How can a president with an army of advisers let him publish something like that? Even if it was his very own mistake it is really unbelievable that people around him didn't know a thing on the matter, is just simply not possible.

He really should stay away from the stupidity of social networks and do better for the country that is still going through hard times.

In one occasion he also denied the climate change, possibly due to Trump's position, showing that he doesn't know a thing about certain topics. In such situations he should really shut up and get properly informed.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#315

Post by cwalv »

BobbyJo wrote: post #194
cwalv wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough; store of value additionally requires restricted supply so that the value isn't debased. But in the context of this thread, that just strengthens the argument that 'Bitcoin is different'.

It also requires a value proposition that doesn't depend on the current zeitgeist, among other things. Society changes, and stores of value need to exist outside that change, lest they be left behind with the norms and dogmas. This is where I personally think bitcoin fails.

> Society changes, and stores of value need to exist outside that change

I completely agree. I don't think this is different from saying the store of value needs to stay liquid tho. Bitcoin is currently very illiquid compared to many things, but there's no reason to think it's liquidity will decrease, and based on trends and first principles of what makes something a good 'money', significant reason to believe liquidity will continue to increase

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#316

Post by EGreg »

TeaBrain wrote: post #142
EGreg wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand what you're trying to say. There are "real cash flows" in every case, just what you consider as the unit of account is different. As far as shares, no. It's completely different. Shares are equity securities, that entitle people to dividends or they want the shares to go up in price. Regardless, it sets up a never-ending demand for enshittification and rent extraction that you see across Big Tec…

MLM schemes and affiliate marketing businesses will have, or be related to, underlying businesses of selling products which generate revenue, and they'll have some level of expenses related to producing these products. These are components of an operating cash flow. Businesses, whether private or public, are expected to either have healthy cash flows, or would be expected to grow their cash flows in the future in the…

You are correct about businesses, but very confused about Web3.

I am saying that Web3 should be used by existing celebrities to monetize their existing fame and social capital, sell unsold seats, etc.

I am saying that existing organizations, communities, including entire cities, can benefit from having a decentralized system powered by smart contracts, rather than a random FinTech that posts a surety bond, powering their commerce at scale.

Yes, shares don't necessarily entitle people to dividends, but the point is that the shareholders want to extract rents from the ecosystem, forever. And this is a problem, that doesn't exist when you have utility tokens and cut out the parasitic shareholder class completely.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#318

Post by EGreg »

llamaimperative wrote: post #226
EGreg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people use automation at all? This is like asking why people should switch from telephone switchboard operators, to automatic switchboards. Or why should anyone switch from livery cab services to Uber. Technology may be "less proven" initially, but it's far more reliable in the end. It also removes a whole class of inefficiencies and conflicts that won't be possible with smart contracts, the same way that…

Okay but 1) arbitration is often desirable , which is why these systems allow it, and 2) traditional software can automate just about anything web3 can if you have the same degree of coordination among counterparties

No one said that arbitration isn't desirable, when there is a problem.

It's like saying doctors and medicine are desirable once a medical condition arises. But sometimes, preventative medicine and eating right in the first place is better.

An once of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

Web3 can prevent a whole class of problems that normally would require after-the-fact arbitration to fix. It's better to just have existing systems. Like for example having red lights at intersections, where everyone knows when it's their turn to move.

You understand that software can automate things. That's good. Now you have to understand that web3 is nothing but software which is decentralized and byzantine fault tolerant, so you can trust that the code is being executed correctly. This is the massive improvement over code that runs inside some server farm and can be switched up anytime.

It's weird arguing that no, we would rather have databases where certain people have the key to subtly corrupt the entire database, and then we can catch them and try to recover from this corruption using litigation. That's what MtGox was.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#319

Post by tombert »

rsynnott wrote: post #267
tombert wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me wonder if I should pull my savings out of index funds and just keep cash in a savings account in the short term. Normally I'd buy treasury bills, but honestly considering that Elon has been fucking around with the treasury's code with no oversight, and considering that Trump's big strategy for eliminating national debt has been to "declare bankruptcy" (whatever that would even means in regards to an entir…

> and just keep cash in a savings account in the short term. Ah, but remember the tariffs stuff; you could be looking at _pretty dramatic inflation_ depending on how that works out (personally I suspect he will be ultimately unable to do that much for long; there is likely a level of market disruption at which he will be Liz Trussed, but who knows). All is risk. > I wonder if I should look into seeing if I can buy bo…

Yeah, inflation worries have me concerned too. I am not sure what to do.

I might look into one of the “total world” funds instead of just the US based ones like I usually do.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#320

Post by llamaimperative »

EGreg wrote: post #318
llamaimperative wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but 1) arbitration is often desirable , which is why these systems allow it, and 2) traditional software can automate just about anything web3 can if you have the same degree of coordination among counterparties

No one said that arbitration isn't desirable, when there is a problem. It's like saying doctors and medicine are desirable once a medical condition arises. But sometimes, preventative medicine and eating right in the first place is better. An once of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Web3 can prevent a whole class of problems that normally would require after-the-fact arbitration to fix. It's better to just…

But you can implement transactions without any recourse trivially using existing technology today...

> Web3 can prevent a whole class of problems that normally would require after-the-fact arbitration to fix.

Such as?

> This is the massive improvement over code that runs inside some server farm and can be switched up anytime.

Massive theoretical improvement. No debate there. The question is about applicability, which I notice you've still not made concrete.

> It's weird arguing that no, we would rather have databases where certain people have the key to subtly corrupt the entire database

I don't know, it basically seems to work and as far as I can tell, you're about a billion times more likely to have your shit stolen from you in the web3/cryptoverse than using the traditional financial system... except of course if you're a criminal and/or a more grey-area "unsavory character" to some of the main stakeholders. Which that is a good usecase for this tech, of course.

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