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To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

myteslaexperience.com

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Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#311

Post by mschild »

eb0la wrote: post #192
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the bottom picture any day. Is that the newer or older one? Although the LED strips are stupid. The top pic I saw in the showroom and I really didn't like it.

In the name of $DEITY: WHY? I would pick without thinking the car without the child tablet attached to it, too. We will be forced to switch to this kind of stupid cars by regulation, or planned obsolescence, not by choice.

Not entirely regulation and planned obsolescence but because cost. Coding in the climate controls on the touch screen has a fixed cost that doesn't really increase with each car built. Adding multiple physical buttons, does. Even if each button costs cents to make.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#312

Post by supermatt »

lnsru wrote: post #275
supermatt wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way is to just contact ECC-NET: https://commission.europa.eu/live-work-travel-eu/consumer-ri... They will inform you of your rights and tell you what to do next. Generally you need to register a grievance with the company and wait 28 days for resolution. If it is not resolved, then it depends on the form and value of grievance as to how it would proceed. In your example of BMW, for example, as it is below…

Thanks. Sounds reasonable. But I never solved anything without lawyer. After a letter from a lawyer everything is solved my way next day. There must be some magic.

No problem. A lot of people are unaware of their consumer rights, so please share it forward.

In the case of making a small claim (where it is a monetary claim under 5000), it may have more weight than a lawyers letter (as you are effectively suing them at that point), and they will then be on the hook for settling the filing fee as well, whereas you would otherwise be paying for a letter from a lawyer (although sometimes that cost could also be recovered through the small claims track). You just need to make sure you follow process (28 days notice, etc - again just contact ECC-NET to be aware of the correct process).

Of course, there are occasions where a lawyer may be needed (just as there are for domestic disputes), but being aware of your rights in advance will let you know if you have grounds without the need to pay a lawyer for consultation.

Also worth pointing out again that your EU consumer rights are identical for domestic and cross-border disputes - but for domestic disputes, you can contact your local consumer protection agency instead of ECC-NET as you may have MORE rights domestically (higher small-claims limits, for example) - although i expect ECC-NET would simply refer you in such a case

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#313

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ddalex wrote: post #72

I'm sorry to have to say this, but buying a Tesla in 2024 is a terrible choice - the car is horrible to drive, not to mention customer satisfaction, reliability and ethical concerns. Hyundai and Polestar are way better electric options that are actually enjoyable and comfortable to drive

Around here, I’ve been seeing a lot of non-Tesla EVs. There’s also a lot of Teslas (mostly 3s and Ys). There’s a few Cybertrucks. I’m not a fan of their aesthetics, personally.

Some of the Hyundais look neat. That company has come a long way.

I was behind a brand-new Tesla Model S, a few months ago. Looked like about a $90K trim package.

The trunk was slightly out of line. Probably not enough to affect the seals, but plainly visible.

It would likely have taken two minutes with an Allen wrench to fix, and the fact that a car costing that much, was allowed to leave the factory in that condition, does not speak well for their QC.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#314

Post by PetitPrince »

skissane wrote: post #122
torginus wrote: post #31

The safest bet in EVs is to buy one from the Korean manufacturers - they have the tech figured out (and have had it for a few years), they make everything from 'car but electric' to 'Jetsons spaceship', they're reasonably priced, they have cheap and abundant parts, have mechanics who know how to work on them, and they don't have an 'X' factor CEO.

> The safest bet in EVs is to buy one from the Korean manufacturers - they have the tech figured out (and have had it for a few years) Not an EV, but I have a 2022 Kia Sorento with a fair number of weird software bugs-e.g. the sound from the navigation system randomly stops working and I have to restart the car to make it work again; the car tries to read speed limit signs using machine vision but its capabilities ar…

My daily driver is a 2020 Kona Electric (a buddy of mine drive a Kia Xceed; my understanding is that they use the same software). No software issue to report or that I remember. The only issue I have is more taste than problem (the way the highlighted road is displayed on satnav is better on Google Maps IMO).

I find the OS perfectly boring, and I like it that way. Most of the car functions has physical, clicky buttons. The one that doesn't are justified IMO (navigation, pairing bluetooth, etc.).

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#315

Post by jeroenhd »

coldtea wrote: post #101
huijzer wrote: post #91

> On Sunday December 1, when I got home, I tried to update the Operating System again. No luck. Same problem again, the download hung halfway. This is a common problem. I also have a severe dislike of the Tesla updating process. I have the feeling that it's made for people who have a garage with 24/7 wifi. Without that, you're out of luck. In Okt and Dec of last year I have spent 4 hours per month on updating. This i…

> I also have a severe dislike of the Tesla updating process. There being an "updating process" is already a huge red flag for a car.

Cars have had computers for decades now. Before the age of OTA updates, whenever one of those computers had a problem, a recall was issued and you needed to physically take the car to a dealer, probably pay some kind of service fee, and have them plug something into a hidden slot somewhere to flash an update. Other times they'd just swap out the physical computer (call it a "part") and throw out the buggy one.

I don't like the modern 'car OS as a service' system where every month or so defects need to be fixed for some reason, but OTA is a hell of a lot better than the system before software updates became available to consumers.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#316

Post by Gare »

krageon wrote: post #177
Gare wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kWh/h is a proper unit for average energy consumption over time, if a bit weird.

It's something that's used, but I'd make the case it was never proper. The time component is right there!

If you think of watt-hour as "joule times 3600" then it makes sense

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#317

Post by t43562 »

That company is known for having patchy quality and difficult service. As usual the "best car" depends on what aspects of a car you value and how it fits your journeys. If you're thinking about "best" as a general thing rather than about how it fits you personally then you're buying based on status. Right now that status is probably very negative - radioactive even.

As for volume of cars sold in Europe I'd bet the ID series is by far the most common with the underlying platform being the same in many models. That means if you're in trouble about some issue you're not going to be lonely.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#318

Post by Philpax »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #81
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #20

I had similar experiences with a modern Volvo. (XC40 T8 EV). Modern cars seem to be absolutely terrible. It's like all those Single Page Applications on the web that are just downgrades over the classic Server-Side Rendered apps. Sure, you have more features, but at what cost? Reliability. I think the last generations of cars before the touch buttons and screens were the last "okay" generation. Somewhere in 2010s, al…

There was a good (?) video on the subject the other day, it was mainly about Volkswagen / VAG but highlighted the software problem. Cars are / were basically Frankenstein monsters under the hood, with dozens of onboard computers / chips all needing to work independently yet collaboratively and talk to each other. VW set up a new subsidiary and hired 3000 people to build the car software system of the future, reducing…

The video in question: https://youtu.be/74E-eAxQ9P4

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#319

Post by theshrike79 »

aeyes wrote: post #304
theshrike79 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a trick in the EU. If you buy the special red colour Y, it'll be German made. The other colours can come from China or US.

I doubt that they are any better because most of the issues are caused by poor design.

They do have less panel gaps and other minor flaws, because the people putting them together in Germany actually care (and have unions and proper working hours so they're not exhausted).

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#320

Post by user3939382 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #226
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #20

I had similar experiences with a modern Volvo. (XC40 T8 EV). Modern cars seem to be absolutely terrible. It's like all those Single Page Applications on the web that are just downgrades over the classic Server-Side Rendered apps. Sure, you have more features, but at what cost? Reliability. I think the last generations of cars before the touch buttons and screens were the last "okay" generation. Somewhere in 2010s, al…

If I was to buy a car these days (which I'm not, I don't have nearly enough money for that), I'd want something with as little "computer" in it as possible. Just a box with 4 wheels and an engine, or maybe a battery and a motor, maybe a heater for when it gets a bit cold, and I'll throw a bluetooth speaker in the back seat if I need something to listen to

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