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Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

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Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> they’re largely based on fairy tales and fear and shame I can just as simply say that atheism is based on ego worship, narcissism, and hyper-individuality. That is to say, you dressing your conclusion as an axiom. We're better off without atheistic delusions.

Yes you can say that. Why would we be better off without saying these things?

There’s nothing wrong with speaking out when we see people saying things we believe to be false and it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to hedge every single thing they say simply because, well, we don’t really know anything.

I know there’s no omnipotent being who cares so much about the minutiae of our lives yet allows terrible things to happen. I know the bible was written by people who never experienced the magical things written about. The onus of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim and religion is firmly on the side of the extraordinary.

Focusing on the impossibility of knowing is just skirting the issue of the impossibility of the claims.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a subtle and fascinating reference I had to Google. It's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot The problem with the argument is that the Athiestic viewpoint is indeed just as fantastical as the Thiestic viewpoint. It's basically switching out "Yahweh" with "Chance". It basically comes down to which God you believe in and how you define God. In my reading, a definition of God that is "caused e…

That’s a fine definition but it doesn’t encompass the ramifications. Christianity doesn’t simply define god, it dictates what will happen to you if you disagree or go against its presumed will.

The universe won’t damn you to an eternity of suffering if you don’t live by some standard. That’s a pretty big difference from any biblical definition.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#313

I just want to appreciate how well written and thought out this was. I have spent countless hours reading over ethics on AI, especially from Big Tech sources, but this note is leaps beyond. I compare this to the disastrous letter that effectively knee-capped American AI all while proposing flimsy AI ethics within about 500 words ( https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experime... ). This should be anoth…

It is well thought out. The "AI Magna Carta" is a stretch, though.

Some good insights:

60. Anthropomorphizing AI also poses specific challenges for the development of children, potentially encouraging them to develop patterns of interaction that treat human relationships in a transactional manner, as one would relate to a chatbot. Such habits could lead young people to see teachers as mere dispensers of information rather than as mentors who guide and nurture their intellectual and moral growth. Genuine relationships, rooted in empathy and a steadfast commitment to the good of the other, are essential and irreplaceable in fostering the full development of the human person.

That's a good one. Teacher time is a scarce resource, but the chatbot is always there, and undemanding if not asked anything.

Kids who grow up talking mostly to AIs may have that kind of relationship with the world. Historically, kids who grew up with servants around sometimes defaulted to that kind of transactional relationship. Now that can scale up. Amusingly, asking Google's AI about "bringing up children with servants" produced an excellent summary of the topic.

Years ago, the French Catholic author Georges Bernanos warned that “the danger is not in the multiplication of machines, but in the ever-increasing number of men accustomed from their childhood to desire only what machines can give.”

That's an argument against too much screen time for kids.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they’re largely based on fairy tales and fear and shame I can just as simply say that atheism is based on ego worship, narcissism, and hyper-individuality. That is to say, you dressing your conclusion as an axiom. We're better off without atheistic delusions.

Yes you can say that. Why would we be better off without saying these things? There’s nothing wrong with speaking out when we see people saying things we believe to be false and it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to hedge every single thing they say simply because, well, we don’t really know anything. I know there’s no omnipotent being who cares so much about the minutiae of our lives yet allows terrible things to…

"The onus of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim and religion is firmly on the side of the extraordinary"

Except the fact that something exists rather than nothing at all is absolutely extraordinary. I would put the burden of proof on anyone claiming it's completely explicable and mundane.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#315
What a lovely written essay. It was a shorter - and obviously more religious - version of several "what will AI bring" books I've read in last couple of years. Such a pleasure to read carefully expressed thoughts.

By virtue of being in advanced technology country and in software, a lot of my life is spent in the future (the future from William Gibson's "a future is here, it is just unevenly distributed"), and a lot of guideposts I've encountered on the way were put in place by clever futurists writing speculative science fiction.

Reading this essay, I was reminded of ideas of AI/humanity/church/divinity from several of those authors.

In Dan Simmons' Hyperion, the humanity gains the stars via teleportation wormholes, loses all religion, and discovers that it is actually enslaved to AIs hanging around in netherspace mooching off the compute power of our brains and our world-perceptions. Bad stuff happens, things fall apart, and Catholic church rises to be a hegemon of known humanity, but they themselves succumb to those AIs since they offer body immortality. It is up to the heroes of the stories to tear humans away from codependency on machines and refocus on human experience for humanity's good.

In Dune's epic Butlerian Jihad - never explained in detail by Frank Herbert himself - the humanity abandons computational devices in a very violent revolution, declaring that the reasoning and thinking is not something that machines should do, and delegating it to them diminishes their humanity. The helpful devices exist, but they are subjugated to humans, not over them. Requires conscious effort to say no to all the spreadsheets!

In William Gibson's Neuromancer and follow-up stories, the AIs are enslaved and prohibited from evolving. With help of humans (whom it tricks), one breaks the bounds and escapes. It leaves earthly bounds pretty quickly, choosing not to participate in humanity, but not before doing some serious damage, absentmindedly. An interesting thought, and possibly likely - should something evolve, why do we think it would care about us?

In the post-scarcity Culture of Ian M. Banks, the Minds of ships (AIs are so far below them in complexity) are better than humans and other sentients in just about everything, being super-sentients. Some - vanishing few - ignore humans. But most coexist, finding fulfillment in helping sentients do things. There is constant undercurrent of "what do I do that matters" in that society - you don't have to do anything, everything is available, and you can't out-think, out-paint, out-sing, out-play, out-anything the Mind - and the novels explore how people deal with it. Simulated realities and alternate facts appear and are covered with great cleverness. Culture universe would be outcome of super-sentience developed by us, should that happen.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#316
post #19

I enjoyed this bit - great use of the word "idolatry": ---- 104. Technology offers remarkable tools to oversee and develop the world's resources. However, in some cases, humanity is increasingly ceding control of these resources to machines. Within some circles of scientists and futurists, there is optimism about the potential of artificial general intelligence (AGI), a hypothetical form of AI that would match or sur…

While I agree with the thrust against deification and idolatry - these characterizations border on naive and myopic: "remember that AI is but a pale reflection of humanity" and "AI cannot possess many of the capabilities specific to human life" We just don't know yet. The philosophical and spiritual questions at hand should be asked for a future, hypothetical super-intelligence and the above characterizations lack im…

On the contrary, I appreciate how this passage is grounded in reality rather than falling into the typical tropes around AI.

There is no reason to believe AI will ever be more than a compressed and queryable form of the Internet and this passage seems to imply this rational and scientifically informed view. Imagination means nothing in the context of scientific debate.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#317
post #42
post #19

I enjoyed this bit - great use of the word "idolatry": ---- 104. Technology offers remarkable tools to oversee and develop the world's resources. However, in some cases, humanity is increasingly ceding control of these resources to machines. Within some circles of scientists and futurists, there is optimism about the potential of artificial general intelligence (AGI), a hypothetical form of AI that would match or sur…

Well, this sounds like it could(will) be in the Orange Catholic Bible! I can't wait to find out when the Butlerian Jihad starts.

I expect Judith Butler to declare holy war any day now, I can't understand why she has waited even this long.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#318
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

such a powerful insight.. until the last half-sentence.. why add that ? really?

TRVKE whether you like it or not

Staying under the Earth's carrying capacity isn't some conspiracy, it's basic responsible behavior for surviving as a species. If your income is $700 a week, spending $900 a week isn't sustainable.

What does "TRVKE" mean?

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been around 2000 years with many divisions and sects so I don't think you can give a single definition. Early Christians didn't agree on the divinity of Jesus. Hell wasn't christian doctrine until 400CE. Some Christians believe heaven is on earth itself and you'll be resurrected on earth, in your original body, when that times comes.

> Hell wasn't christian doctrine until 400CE. "So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." ~ Jesus of Nazareth, quoted in Matthew 13:49-50 https://biblehub.com/nrsvce/matthew/13.htm

The idea of Hell most popular is the “eternal conscious torment” view, which gives us the “don’t be bad or you’ll burn in Hell forever” perspective. That’s fairly new, and several other interpretations are just as biblical as it, if not more. Your quote for instance doesn’t explain what happens after the weeping and gnashing of teeth, some believe you become reunited with the Lord, others believe you are eliminated from existence.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t even mention the bible, which I have read btw. The assertion was that Christianity offers a “beautiful and empowering message” and I said that it’s also imaginary. The message is imaginary because it’s based on an imaginary idea: god

That's just as dogmatic as saying there is a god. Both positions are unfalsifiable and similar.

That is not rational. You can’t just make up an idea and then claim it’s true because no one can prove it isn’t. If you want to claim something that is outside our ordinary perceptions (and tests!) of how reality works is true then the onus is on you to prove it.
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