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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#311

Post by judge2020 »

jefftk wrote: post #117
boshalfoshal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercruise might be comparable to Tesla's "Autosteer" product but its incomparable to Tesla's paid "FSD Supervised" product. The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist.

> The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist. It depends how you look at it, but in the (super limited) cases where you can use Mercedes Drive Pilot you can legally and safely read a book, watch a movie, or work while in the driver's seat. [1] That's not the case with any Tesla product. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot

How do I file a claim for an accident it causes?

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#312

Post by karlgkk »

bdangubic wrote: post #267
mensetmanusman wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in some small parts of the country. Tesla is dominating most everywhere else in the US. I definitely have no access to a Waymo but have been driven by FSD in heavy construction. (Do not own a Tesla myself).

get drunk, pass out in a Tesla and have it take you home. come back here when this happens (ballparking 2089…).

I think an actual realistic goal for this is closer to 2030 or 2035. But it certainly won’t be your personal vehicle or it’ll require subscribing to an overseer system (like Waymo uses)

Btw that kinda thing is one of the few use cases that really does require 5g’s latency and bandwidth… which Tesla currently doesn’t ship. More hardware updates are going to come, despite musks promises)

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#313

Post by kccqzy »

jefftk wrote: post #117
boshalfoshal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercruise might be comparable to Tesla's "Autosteer" product but its incomparable to Tesla's paid "FSD Supervised" product. The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist.

> The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist. It depends how you look at it, but in the (super limited) cases where you can use Mercedes Drive Pilot you can legally and safely read a book, watch a movie, or work while in the driver's seat. [1] That's not the case with any Tesla product. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot

I'm sure legally yes, but tell that to a cop who stopped you.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#314

Post by karlgkk »

delabay wrote: post #293
herval wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried both extensively (have the full FSD package on my Model 3). FSD still feels suicidal in a good day, plain incapable on average. I can’t imagine how someone would compare it to a multi-sensor setup - a single camera can’t match the level of prescience a Waymo or Cruise have. But also as the overall experience is just absurdly different. Waymo was the first tech thing I felt was truly magical in _decades_. Mean…

Interesting, I use FSD for two hours a day and I can relate to none of what you have said.

Certain routes and models are infamous for this. I recently got a 12.5 demo from a friend that was both impressive when it worked, and truly horrendous when it didn’t. And yes, we had a phantom break event - which appeared to be due to windy road conditions. That’s inexcusable tbqh

The problem is that at the end of the day, enough people still have serious issues and Tesla wildly oversells the capability of their system.

I think they’ll “get there” in terms of functionality and reliability but it’s nowhere near what waymo is reporting

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#315

Post by sangnoir »

boshalfoshal wrote: post #176
jefftk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist. It depends how you look at it, but in the (super limited) cases where you can use Mercedes Drive Pilot you can legally and safely read a book, watch a movie, or work while in the driver's seat. [1] That's not the case with any Tesla product. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot

Yes there are actual "legal" notions of driver assistance "levels," but out of those 3 companies Tesla seems to be taking it the most seriously. Elon has a high conviction in the product and has continued to pour billions of dollars in GPUs, talent, supply chains, etc to make it happen. Other manufacturers don't take it nearly as seriously, unfortunately. Sure you might not be able to legally claim that a Tesla is to…

> Yes there are actual "legal" notions of driver assistance "levels," but out of those 3 companies Tesla seems to be taking it the most seriously.

..and yet Tesla is quick to blame the drivers when accidents happen - and has disclaimers for supervision in its TOS. Mercedes on the other hand, takes all responsibility for eventualities that happen while self-driving is engaged (DrivePilot - not ADAS)

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#316

Post by karlgkk »

Petersipoi wrote: post #279
bcoates wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better…

I don’t think FSD is vaporware, but I believe it has been massively overpromised and underdelivered. And also, I have reason to believe its going to require yet another major hardware revision - despite teslas protestations

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#317

Post by karlgkk »

spankalee wrote: post #277
bcoates wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

Waymo doesn't have remote divers of any sort.

Well of course they don’t have remote divers: they don’t operate underwater

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#318

Post by karlgkk »

jmount wrote: post #257
rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

Reminds me of my father in law's experience with Toyota (I think). The car's nav system had an update available on a CD you put into the car stereo. The dealership made him order one, instead of the much more reasonable loaning him one.

Those updates were frequently map updates, which at the time were licensed for money.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#319

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

jefftk wrote: post #190
boshalfoshal wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are actual "legal" notions of driver assistance "levels," but out of those 3 companies Tesla seems to be taking it the most seriously. Elon has a high conviction in the product and has continued to pour billions of dollars in GPUs, talent, supply chains, etc to make it happen. Other manufacturers don't take it nearly as seriously, unfortunately. Sure you might not be able to legally claim that a Tesla is to…

I think there's some chance that Tesla's approach will work out for them, but I'm not optimistic. Getting self-driving software to "impressively good" happened pretty quickly, and even systems from 2016 would usually pass your "go there without touching the wheel or pedals" test. But from there to "as safe as a human" let alone "as safe as we require human-replacing machines to be" turns out to be quite a hard gap to…

There’s no comparison between what was available when I bought my Tesla in 2020 and what I have today.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#320

Post by mikepurvis »

mingus88 wrote: post #10
com2kid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. Sadly this is believable, I've asked to check out things like remote start and control of heating/cooling, and the sales…

Based on my anecdotal experience, another issue is that salespeople are not trained on the tech I worked on a feature for new vehicles and the company failed in part because buyers simply didn’t know those features were part of the vehicle. Dealers never set it up for the buyer and it wasn’t something many people would think to do on their own A salesperson isn’t going to jeopardize an easy sale by bungling some fanc…

Older example but when I got a second hand Mazda in ~2017, the salesperson I bought it from set up Bluetooth pairing for voice calls via my phone.

As it turned out, the feature was still pretty janky and I only tried it a few times before reverting to just regular speakerphone. And when the battery died and the head unit lost all its config, I never bothered figuring out how to set it up a second time.

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