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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#311

Post by aurareturn »

bilbo0s wrote: post #179
aurareturn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight replies to my post and no one has mentioned China yet. Has China been accepted as a "real" enemy? To me, China is the main virtual enemy that politicians trout out to create fear and distraction.

China is the "enemy" in the sense that we need someone competent to keep the military industrial complex fed with money. Good "return on propaganda investment" for those guys. Smedley Butler told us how this was all gonna work a long time ago.

It isn't just the military industrial complex.

It extends as far as Zuckerberg hiring PR firms to write hit pieces on Tiktok and lobbying government officials in order to stave off competition.

"China bad" is profitable for everyone it seems, except the commoners.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#312

Post by lordgroff »

sneak wrote: post #168
aurareturn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Who is that virtual enemy for the US?

The rest of the replies here seem to be personal attitudes and opinions. Objectively, the state-promoted bogeymen in the USA are consistently Iran, China, DPRK, and increasingly Russia. I just spent a month in China and the disparity between what we are told in western media and what is actually going on is substantial, but not in the ways I expected.

Please--do tell more re: China. I hear a lot of parroting of negative talking point about China here in Canada, I see a lot of crazy footage from China that looks like the future, but I'd love to know more about your actual experience.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#313

Post by echoangle »

anon291 wrote: post #288
echoangle wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re just shifting goalposts. First it’s martial law, then it gets disproven and the response is „ok, but still bad!“. Why not make a correct claim in the first place?

Martial law is the imposition of punishments without due process. In no world can one argue that being under the equivalent of house arrest is not a punishment. To impose that punishment carte-blanche on anyone who's traveled domestically is a form of martial law.

> Martial law is the imposition of punishments without due process

That might be something that happens under martial law but not every occurrence of this is martial law by definition.

> In no world can one argue that being under the equivalent of house arrest is not a punishment.

Watch me do it: Punishment implies intent to make you reconsider your behavior due to perceived misbehavior. If I lock a dog in a kennel to protect him from a larger dog and forget to let him out for 5 hours afterwards, I wasn’t punishing him at any point. Unless the government did the „house arrest“ to make you suffer (instead of preventing spread of disease, for example), it’s not punishment.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#314

Post by aurareturn »

sneak wrote: post #168
aurareturn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Who is that virtual enemy for the US?

The rest of the replies here seem to be personal attitudes and opinions. Objectively, the state-promoted bogeymen in the USA are consistently Iran, China, DPRK, and increasingly Russia. I just spent a month in China and the disparity between what we are told in western media and what is actually going on is substantial, but not in the ways I expected.

  I just spent a month in China and the disparity between what we are told in western media and what is actually going on is substantial, but not in the ways I expected.
I always tell people on Hacker News to just book a flight to Shenzhen. Just go. They'll be completely safe there - probably even safer than where they come from. They can go see China for themselves, instead of through western media.

The vast majority of people on Hacker News have drank so much "China bad" propaganda that they're even afraid of visiting.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#315

Post by [deleted] »

wesselbindt wrote: post #221
meepmorp wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SK has been at war with a hostile, communist neighbor for about 75 years. It's not really "red scare stuff." Edit: I'm not sure what I was getting at, so ignore me

There's no pro north Korean elements in the opposition. This is using a very real foreign adversary as a boogeyman to demonize political opponents. That's exactly what "red scare stuff" was back then in the United States, and that's exactly how it's being used right now by the president of Korea.

[deleted]

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#316

Post by blitzar »

etiam wrote: post #184
blitzar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst case, South Korea starts a war with North Korea so the president can cling to power.

Are you sure that's a worst case scenario? Pyongyang has clearly decided to get their troops current live combat experience and is soliciting military assistance from a larger aggressive dictatorship, which is however very busy elsewhere right now. That reason would be awful, and most likely the consequences too, but it's not readily obvious to me that the timing would be.

The South marching north would force China into the conflict and the West would very tentitatively stand by while South Koreans were being fed into a meat grinder. Should South Korea manage to unify North & South it would bankrupt them.

The North marching South would get little to no support from their allies and would be repelled rapidly before returning to the current status quo.

So yes, I am sure. Neither sides allies have any desire to be the agressor. Not to mention that simply starting a war to cling on to power might be the stupidest reason there is to start a war.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#317

Post by sandworm101 »

nurumaik wrote: post #171
cyberlimerence wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Yonhap (Korea state news): "Activities related to National Assembly, political parties banned: martial law commander." [1] "Entry, exit from National Assembly blocked after declaration of martial law." [2] [1] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013900315 [2] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013200315

Is he going to ban voting next?

That is what martial law is all about: pausing democratic norms to deal with an emergency. Voting, public gatherings, a free internet ... it is open season.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#320

Post by JumpCrisscross »

echoangle wrote: post #257
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the opposition is controlling the parliament, isn't that the majority and isn't the opposition controlling the president? You're confusing prime ministers in parliamentary democracies, e.g. the UK with presidents [1]. [1] https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-betwee...

The point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition? Or how is it defined who is the opposition?

> point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition?

In a parliamentary democracy, the governing coalition and opposition are clearly delineated. In a presidential system, a legislature controlled by a party different from the president tends to be referred to as an opposition legislature, e.g. the House is currently in opposition to Biden.

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