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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

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Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#311

Post by lijok »

The_Colonel wrote: post #185
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

> If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start polishing your resume. Yeah, I'm not going to change a job just because one of my superiors is insecure (and the other things are good). This all-or-nothing mentality is just thought-stopping.

> Yeah, I'm not going to change a job just because one of my superiors is insecure

You likely are, willingly or not.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#312

Post by saltcured »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #71
bradlys wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just due to an employee being H1B. It's that 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. I don't even feel like I'm working in the US when I'm working for any tech company these days. If I'm at ads for FB, I may as well be in Beijing. Some others, I may as well be in Mumbai. It would be nice to work with Americans/westerners for once and actuall…

Interesting. I used to work mainly with european developers (dutch, french, germans, russians, spaniards, polish, etc.) and I always could speak my mind, and others would do so. No BS, no avoiding direct confrontation. But more recently I have been working with ex-faang american developers and I don’t like it. It’s not that they are like indians and the like, but definitely not as direct and straightforward as europe…

In my ~30 year career in the US, as a local, I have seen constant change. The FAANGs are even an amplified version of this. So when someone draws a comparison I always wonder if they are comparing contemporaries or rather an older experience versus a newer one, which is confounded by these temporal shifts.

I think there are a few significant (first-order) factors in the evolving US tech culture.

One is the often discussed age bias and growth rate, where these organizations are constantly diluting with incoming college grads and leaking their institutional knowledge and culture through low retention rates. It's not just H1B workers but all these new local hires who are "colonizing" the old tech world.

The second is the way FAANGs have focused on general consumer markets, advertising, and pop culture. To my eye, other markets used to be more influential. These other tech problems and investments remain, but the new media gold rush has seized the attention for many years. Consumer tech has been merging with media in general, and I think the culture inherently shifts in the same way.

The third factor is a bit recursive. The adoption of social media in the general population affects the way that culture evolves. This disproportionately influences young people, and a subset become the next wave of employees mentioned in the first point. But this is also why I wonder if these changes are more global, as my impression is that social media has accelerated the way regional cultural differences are eroding with more frequent and constant cross contact.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#313

Post by Archelaos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #187
Kamq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors). It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. On…

> you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors I disagree. Losing the respect of your subordinates is IMHO worse than of your superior.

I think the OP meant: in private, face is only lost when criticised by a peer or superior.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#314

Post by palata »

kstenerud wrote: post #266
palata wrote: post #42

In my 13 years of experience, I would say it's never worth giving feedback to your manager. Either they are good and it's useless, or they are not and they won't learn from you. I have come to a simple rule: if the manager is good, there is no problem. If the manager sucks (often that's because they lack experience, but it's all the same), just lie to them in order to preserve yourself. No need to have empathy for th…

Closing in on 30 years now. The trick is to get into a company where the mission is sound, the direction makes sense, and your manager is good (i.e. protects you from above, and makes sure shit gets done in a timely and orderly fashion). Then, help your manager out. Everyone has their flaws, bad situations etc. Be a true team member and help your manager out on those rare occasions where they really need it.

Agreed! Unfortunately not always easy to end up in such a position, but definitely something to look for!

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#315

Post by fny »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #249
fny wrote: post #27

These are all rhetorical techniques to make your idea their idea. If you ever want to get anything done in painfully structured or faux-flat orgs, this is the way. Why this psyop works: 1. People like to take credit for things. 2. People don't like to be wrong. 3. People get irked when a good idea wasn't their idea. 4. People don't like to feel threatened. 5. Just remove the duck. The examples given are a little cont…

> These are all rhetorical techniques to make your idea their idea. Ok, cool, I've heard this a gazillion times by now. I don't disagree, it does looks like it's better at getting shit done. Just one question: how do I get credited for anything? I have my career to look out for too.

You involve yourself in executing the idea and talk up those contributions. If it turns out you were wrong, hide.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#316

Post by palata »

Wurdan wrote: post #291
palata wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you took only half of my point. If the manager is good, then there is no reason to bullshit them. But believing that a bad manager will suddenly become good because you as a report taught them with a few carefully-crafted politically-correct statements sounds extremely naive to me. Let me give an example: to a good manager, you could say "I'm under a lot of pressure because I have two many urgent things o…

Crazily oversimplified view of people. Just one thing you’ve missed: in addition to the axis of good/bad there’s an axis of experienced/inexperienced. Managers can be both good and inexperienced, in which case feedback is absolutely necessary to improve their lives and yours.

> Crazily oversimplified view of people.

Then proceeds to add one axis, getting the total up to 2! :-)

> Managers can be both good and inexperienced, in which case feedback is absolutely necessary to improve their lives and yours.

If they are good and inexperienced, I don't think they need to be taught that if they don't set priorities, they should not be disappointed when they realise that... no priorities have been set. So they are still good.

If they are bad "because they are inexperienced", then they are still bad. They should not be a manager. They can acquire experience without being a manager though, e.g. by having a manager in the first place.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#317

Post by palata »

stavros wrote: post #293
palata wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of feedback was it? My guess is that those were pretty minor things that slightly improved your life. But the fact that it worked hints towards the fact that the managers were already competent, so the reports were already in a pretty good situation. No need for the advice of the featured article for that, right?

The most recent instance, a few days ago, my feedback to the CTO was that, while the org restructuring he proposed was a good idea in principle, the way he did it was terrible, and that he ignored and disrespected his highest performers. I said he hogs all the growth for himself and doesn't let any of his reports grow into more responsibilities, and he's showing that he doesn't respect the people who are integral in…

> a few days ago, my feedback to the CTO was

Did he completely change course because of your feedback?

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#318

Post by zahlman »

slater wrote: post #49
bargainbot3k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What watermelon?

Based on other comments similarly barely making any sense, I think that account is some kind of chatbot tuned to try to make generic comments that fit in on HN.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#319

Post by stavros »

palata wrote: post #317
stavros wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most recent instance, a few days ago, my feedback to the CTO was that, while the org restructuring he proposed was a good idea in principle, the way he did it was terrible, and that he ignored and disrespected his highest performers. I said he hogs all the growth for himself and doesn't let any of his reports grow into more responsibilities, and he's showing that he doesn't respect the people who are integral in…

> a few days ago, my feedback to the CTO was Did he completely change course because of your feedback?

It's only been one working day since, but, knowing him and the rest of the senior leadership team, I do expect a large correction.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#320

Post by rybosworld »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

This is very much a "the world _should_ work this way" view point.

But this attitude is not particularly useful in a world where things aren't black and white.

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