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Buy payphones and retire

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Re: Buy payphones and retire

#311

Post by tomooot »

NeoTar wrote: post #302
eru wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can also use the buy-borrow-die strategy in the US to avoid capital gains taxes. Here in my adopted home of Singapore we don't have such silly things as capital gains taxes. Makes things a lot simpler for the average person who doesn't want to pay for the lawyers and accountants.

The average person doesn't pay capital gains tax - at least in the UK; there is a 12 3000 GBP allowance per year of gains which means that you need to have significant assets (think top 10% of the country) before it becomes an issue.

Not £12300 any more, £6000 last year and currently £3000.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#312

Post by CaptainFever »

0xEF wrote: post #267
seizethecheese wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money doesn't work, people do! Not really true at all. Production is almost always a combination of labor and capital. Consider a restaurant. People are working there but so is a stove, aka capital aka money.

I think you misunderstood what capital is. See, one does not become a Capitalist without taking advantage of others. Most people don't have the initial capital to build the stove and sell it to other Capitalists, so they end up, as in your example, just another piece of equipment doing the actual work in the restaurant alongside the stove. The Capitalist and their money do no actual work, but finance the work being d…

No, you misunderstand what capital is.

> While money itself may be construed as capital, capital is more often associated with cash that is being put to work for productive or investment purposes. In general, capital is a critical component of running a business from day to day and financing its future growth.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital.asp

What you're espousing is the outdated view of the Labour Theory of Value. To see why this is wrong, imagine a bottle of grape juice that gets forgotten, which turns into wine and gains value. Yet no work was put into it.

Please, please stop repeating century-old outdated theories that has been disproven.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/labor-theory-of-value.a...

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#313

Post by SirMaster »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #278
SirMaster wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have insurances for downturns built into the cost of the deal. Even if the value of the property doesn't increase as much as expected, you are still making a decent amount in income from the rent being paid. 6% maybe doesn't sound like much, but it's tax free income due to being able to deduct from that income the depreciation from the property and appliances and such which in my experience always is more than e…

Have you looked at the return from S&P 500 in the last 10 years? 1,964 -> 5,823 is about 11.5% per annum, compounded. It is one of the biggest bull markets in 100 years. And you are telling us that your investment properties are sustaining the same returns? Unbelievable. Neither is sustainable.

Yes. I feel like you are not understanding anything about what these investments entail.

A struggling apartment complex property in an up an coming area is purchased and I put money into that deal. I am only say 100 or 200K of an otherwise ~10 million investment. The complex is massively overhauled, new facilities are built, units are completely refurbished, the on-site staff are replaced, bad tenants not paying are evicted, and new vetted tenants are found. The whole place is re-branded and then after all this is complete is sold for a substantial profit. All while making income from rents during the time the property is held.

It's a LOT of work. Not by me as I am just an investor, but by the managing partners who spent months or longer searching or and analyzing the area and working with the bank for the loan and then doing all that work to completely overhaul the place.

When you find and invest with a management partner who has been doing this awhile and has a proven track record yes the returns are as good as I am saying.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#314

Post by le-mark »

WalterBright wrote: post #68
SoftTalker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson here is that there really is no free lunch. There is no secret, no-work way to make lots of money. If anyone can do it, there's little value in it so you won't make much money. If you have thousands of dollars to invest and want to do no work, just buy index funds.

There are ways to make lots of money with no work and little investment. An example is buying lottery tickets. The problem, though, is the risk goes up with the potential reward. Your chances of winning the lottery are indistinguishable from zero. But it's still there.

Other ways are writing a hit song, advertising jingle, a bestselling novel, a top selling video game. Ways not to get rich; a “better c” language and compiler?

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#315

Post by SirMaster »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #281
ac29 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>additionally the total investment about doubles in roughly 5 years According to data at FRED ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS ), the median US home price has gone from $320k to $420k in the past 5 years (an increase of around 30%). So, I guess good for you that you happen to have done so much better than the median, but your results are atypical at best, and misleading at worst.

Thank you to share this data. 320->240 in 5 years is 5.6% compounded. It is hard for home prices to outpace a combination of inflation and real economic growth rates for very long. As some point, home prices stall out because buyers cannot get enough leverage from mortgages.

This has nothing to do with houses.

This is buying multi-million dollar struggling apartment complexes and completely overhauling them and then selling them, and then repeating at a whole new location.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#316

Post by andai »

bdjsiqoocwk wrote: post #290
SoftTalker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson here is that there really is no free lunch. There is no secret, no-work way to make lots of money. If anyone can do it, there's little value in it so you won't make much money. If you have thousands of dollars to invest and want to do no work, just buy index funds.

> there really is no free > just buy index funds Sounds like your contradicting yourself. Sounds like index funds are in fact a free lunch.

You need free money first!

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#317

Post by le-mark »

cryptozeus wrote: post #60
SoftTalker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson here is that there really is no free lunch. There is no secret, no-work way to make lots of money. If anyone can do it, there's little value in it so you won't make much money. If you have thousands of dollars to invest and want to do no work, just buy index funds.

Very true, I did exactly this.

My investments during the Covid dip attest to this. There will always be another dip.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#318

Post by CaptainFever »

ipsum2 wrote: post #235
andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

What is a "scissor concept"? Google returns no results.

Maybe it is a reference to this? https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#319

Post by SirMaster »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #275
SirMaster wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rental income doesn't need any work if you are just an investor though. I don't do a single thing. The people who are managing the deal are the ones who do the work and hire the workers to work on site and such. They of course get an even better return during the sale, but I am happy with what I get for doing nothing. My rental properties are paying me a decent passive income of about 6%, and additionally the total i…

> the total investment about doubles in roughly 5 years And: > start with an initial $100K investment. That pays back about 6K a year for 5 years and then turns into about 200K after 5 years 5 years * 6K/year is 30K profit rental income. That leaves 70k in capital gains. ROI calculator tells me that is 11+% per year: 100K->170K in 5 years. Jesus, what market? And, how sustainable is that level of return? And, will th…

There are no capital gains taxes, or well any taxes are offset by the depreciation.

For example on a 100K investment in the first year you get about 40-50K of depreciation on your K-1. This is possible because the investment deal managers bring in a firm to account for all the "stuff" in the units like appliances and things and these things depreciate quickly as is coded into laws.

These deprecations offset any taxes that would normally be incurred.

Also when the property is sold, if the money from the sale is invested into a new property within 90 says there is also no tax incurred on that large transaction.

The single deal roughly doubles the return, plus the passive income each year. You are taking that doubled profit and putting that money into a completely new deal and different property and they are doing the same ~5 year complete revamp and sale.

Here are one of the managers of one of the deals I am invested in. I am only 100K out of several million invested, and the mangers have a much larger stake, so they have way more on the line to do well in turning the property around and did their due diligence to find a place to buy that was undervalued.

https://raisere.com/strategy

I hope that helps you understand what I am talking about a bit better.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#320

Post by bemmu »

SoftTalker wrote: post #52
cryptozeus wrote: post #44

Slight off topic self rant: I tried this (dropshipping etc), went against all the good wisdom and rules of creating honest and passionate business. Failed miserably. Funny how brain works, I knew in 3 months that this is not honest, it feels spammy but then orders were coming in so I convinced myself that half the amazon products are doing the same thing. There is market for it then why should I not do this. This nag…

The lesson here is that there really is no free lunch. There is no secret, no-work way to make lots of money. If anyone can do it, there's little value in it so you won't make much money. If you have thousands of dollars to invest and want to do no work, just buy index funds.

There may be some, but the people who find them have no incentive to tell others.
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