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Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#311

Post by kergonath »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #301
kergonath wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a va…

Except there already alternatives to Uber

Uber is a poor example of dominant American companies. They don’t really have a moat and they don’t really provide a better service than the alternatives in Europe. I don’t think people would miss them much if they left.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#312

Post by Nursie »

lolinder wrote: post #293
pylua wrote: post #146

Funny thing is, us data is almost always maintained by people outside of the US, at least for banking. The servers may live in the us, but the people accessing it are probably located in Europe or India. This also means that the data lives their temporarily while it is being accessed. The US definitely needs stronger laws here.

> The US definitely needs stronger laws here. Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal? Why does the US need stronger laws here? This is probably just my inner naive technologist speaking, but I really enjoyed the moment of time during which the internet was a global network of computers that created a virtual space where physical borders were largely irrelevant. So it's…

> Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal?

Because the place where data is collected and stored may have different rules around privacy and data protection then the place it is exfiltrated to.

If I give my data to a company in one place that has strict laws on what may be done with that information, I don’t want it escaping to a low-protection jurisdiction where there are no penalties for selling it to the highest bidder for god knows what purpose.

If there was an acceptable worldwide convention on personal data privacy that would solve the problem. Until there is, it matters a lot.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#313

Post by lmeyerov »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #291
staunton wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much harder to fine companies that break the law if they make up a substantial part of your economy. On the other hand, big US companies don't have as much lobby power in the EU, so the EU is "free" to fine them.

> It's much harder to fine companies that break the law if they make up a substantial part of your economy. Any evidence of this in the EU? EU courts and regulators seem to give no hecks about economy or reason. Data protection is great and all, but GDPR is a dumpster fire.

What policies within GPDR are dumpster fires?

Likewise, afaict it only applies to doing business with EU citizens... So if you don't want to comply, or not be subject to the fees, don't?

I would expect the US to eventually adopt its own more intentional variant of online privacy laws, and software infra to get better at supporting the GPDR flavor, at which point I would expect most US tech companies at least would find it less odd & costly..

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#315

Post by ruthmarx »

troupo wrote: post #133
pembrook wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's all very myopic and US-centered to focus on the company's freedom to do as it pleases. The Dutch DPA is not accusing Uber of doing anything nefarious. They are mad that Uber, as an American company, can be compelled by the US government to hand over data. Ultimately, their beef is not with US companies, it’s with the US government. This is all wildly ironic because the EU is constantly trying to spy on their o…

"These cannibals keep eating people because their country's laws allow it. It's not right to blame the cannibals, the governments should figure it out."

Except in this case people love being eaten and keep volunteering to be eaten by the cannibals.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#316

Post by Rinzler89 »

kmlx wrote: post #280
Rinzler89 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is kind of a FUD fueled false dichotomy, when the truth is we can't know if the EU doesn't have time or resources if it never tries. What the US has that EU doesn't is the infinte money to throw in the bonfire at moonshot projects knowing that 99% will fail and the 1% will be hugely successful, but now the market is mature with less untapped op…

> but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities at a macro level i don’t think things stand still waiting for the europeans to catch up. i think things are moving extremely fast and you either adapt or “stagnate”.

What's "moving" right now besides overhyped and unprofitable generative AI and AI chat bots, most of which are trained on copyrighted content and can be regulated away with a piece of paper when copyright holders lobby enough?

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#317

Post by lolinder »

Nursie wrote: post #312
lolinder wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US definitely needs stronger laws here. Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal? Why does the US need stronger laws here? This is probably just my inner naive technologist speaking, but I really enjoyed the moment of time during which the internet was a global network of computers that created a virtual space where physical borders were largely irrelevant. So it's…

> Can someone clarify for me why the physical location where data is stored is a big deal? Because the place where data is collected and stored may have different rules around privacy and data protection then the place it is exfiltrated to. If I give my data to a company in one place that has strict laws on what may be done with that information, I don’t want it escaping to a low-protection jurisdiction where there a…

But again I ask, why does the physical location of the data matter? Why do the laws care?

The EU has a law that said you must treat data of their citizens with respect. Fine, that's great. Any business that has a presence in the EU will need to follow that law. At that point, why does it matter where the bits are actually stored? Can the EU for some reason not enforce its privacy laws on Uber if Uber keeps its data somewhere else?

Conversely, if a business has no presence in the EU, can the EU enforce its data location laws on them?

The only thing that seems to matter for enforcement is where the company is located, so I'm really unclear what data location has to do with anything.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#318

Post by silent_cal »

ginko wrote: post #274
silent_cal wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know EU has stronger data privacy laws. I just wonder if they're really all that upset about American companies breaking them. They get to use the new tech and fine the companies that bring that tech to them. It's a win-win.

Yes we are upset about American companies breaking the law and using unfair market advantage to get ahead. It's certainly not a win-win. The fines are a drop in the bucket.

Here you are on the internet which America invented, on an American website, complaining about how America is unfair, while they pay you billons of dollars in fines.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#319

Post by returningfory2 »

vanviegen wrote: post #233
returningfory2 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it will actually happen. But the theoretical "problem" with these "X% of worldwide revenue" fines is that they change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe. It makes it so that if a company enters the EU they risk it being a net negative to revenue.

Isn't that exactly the intended effect? Otherwise, why wouldn't BigCorp just ignore any inconvenient laws?

I don't understand, are you saying the intended effect of these laws is that non-EU countries don't enter the EU market?

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#320

Post by michaelteter »

Attrecomet wrote: post #173
michaelteter wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom to some means creating a startup that willfully ignores regulations in virtually every market while playing a funding ponzi game until finally handing the consequences off to the foolish public (IPO).

We don't say "Ponzi scheme" here, we say "disrupting traditional markets" and "investment opportunity"

Or just “funding rounds”
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