As a layman, I have a question about the mass market appeal aspect (or as you call it, making it sexy). Is there any hope that your vessel wouldn’t require earmuffs and a comm system? Or is that only possible after a million bucks of exotic materials?
Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
311–320 of 632 posts
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
While some base to final stall accidents are as simple as you make it sound a good chunk of them happen when you try to come OUT of the turn at an already slow speed increasing the angle of attack on one wing alone. The stall and subsequent spin catches the pilot entirely surprised unaware of why they’re even stalling and with very little escape bandwidth. The FAA has been trying for better angle of attack instrument…
Right but I don't know of any GA stall/spin warning system that takes into account pilot input. Even simple sensors are lacking, for example accelerometers are nearly free yet GA planes give you no warning that you're in a skid. Similarly given yoke input, bank angle and speed you could warn of an impending stall well before it actually happens with a few position encoder sensors. As you point out, the current system…
> the vast majority of GA accidents could be completely avoided with slightly better avionics.
Reading accident reports or the annual summary McSpadden Report (previously called the Nall Report), I get a different view: if pilots would keep fuel in the airplane and flowing to the engine(s), not fly into weather beyond the capability of the airplane and crew, and divert or not takeoff at the onset of signs that an aircraft is not airworthy, would reduce serious accidents by half or more. Better avionics has relatively little to do with that (other than the proper use of a fuel totalizer or better).
Complacency kills more pilots than weak avionics.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#313As a layman, I have a question about the mass market appeal aspect (or as you call it, making it sexy). Is there any hope that your vessel wouldn’t require earmuffs and a comm system? Or is that only possible after a million bucks of exotic materials?
I think battery electric planes will make this less of an issues, once they arrive. The motors are quieter, vibrate less, don’t generate smelly fumes, and there are more mounting options. The eVTOLs from Joby are supposedly very quiet in operation.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed! Learning how to fly alone is the easy part. The hard part is all the rest. Also, this is inconsistent: > large commercial airplane technology has developed to the point that the planes practically fly themselves > We think stick and rudder skills are definitely a necessity for airline pilots flying hundreds of people on board for the extremely rare cases where emergencies do happen and many people's lives are…
There is no inconsistency. The first quote is meant to highlight that commercial planes have autopilot while e.g. Cessnas do not. The second quote emphasizes the importance of training despite autopilot. There is no inconsistency in pointing out that commercial planes have auto pilot while acknowledging that it would be nice for non-commercial planes to also have auto pilot even though training is important.
Most GA aircraft used for travel have autopilots. Even most flight school aircraft used for IFR training have them, at least in my experience in the northeast.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#315Instrument-rated pilot (and engineer) here. First - congrats on the launch! I think you're working on an interesting set of components that will prove useful to GA aircraft technology. Bringing fly-by-wire, and lowering the cost of maintenance/manufacturing are both great efforts. That being said, my personal view is that stick-and-rudder control is one of the less critical components to improving GA safety. Everythi…
The current systems seem to be all designed around there only being minimal air traffic, as it was in the past. People talking one on one with ATC, everything being done on a plane by plane basis. Can that really continue to function if traffic increases a few orders of magnitude? I mean hell, imagine everyone having to ask the city car controller for permission to back their car out of their driveway, state their ro…
Minimal traffic? An ATPL pilot here. Fly into any major airport and you'll see that it can be REALLY BUSY. The system is based around separation down to about 1 minute. Major airfields are all traffic limited (hence "slots").
1 minute might seem like a lot when you're walking or driving, but when coming in at 200mph in something that weights hundreds of tons ... I want that guy 1 minute ahead of me off the runway ;)
And that's considering that existing traffic is of similar speed and ability. Adding slow, small, low-performance aircraft to the mix makes things very interesting ;( Then add low-experience pilots who have to stop and think about procedures, actions, radio calls ...
permission to back their car out of their driveway - It might be different if those cars cost $100M-$300M. A tiny bingle is very expensive.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#316> In the US, trips that are 50-300 miles are almost all done by car because that distance is too short for commercial airlines and too far for public transportation. A bit off-topic but this is a political problem, not a technical one. Trips of 50-300 miles are certainly within the operating range of fast and efficient rail travel as demonstrated in multiple places around the world outside of the US.
Was about to post the same. Passing no judgement on this particular project, which must have been the result of honest hard work and dedication, but it's truly bizarre that people in the US would rather double down on the failed personal vehicle concept rather than embracing public transit, as more developed countries have.
Public transit exists in the US. I take a train to work.
But the problem you're not understanding is that we're not Europe. We don't all live in cities within a couple of miles of our workplaces. Even me, I've got a sixty mile commute, I'm fortunate that there is a commuter train -- but I still have to drive five miles to get to the station. There's no other way, it's not even safe to walk if I felt like walking five miles. I can't live where I work, it would triple my mortgage.
I can't go anywhere else on a train. I can't go to the grocery store on a train, there aren't any.
The US is big. It's just the way it is, and it's not going to change.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many people who don't fly, but can afford to, have you interviewed about their reasons for not flying? This is where I would start trying to solve that problem. I'd be shocked if any of them mention coordinated flying :) My 2c - the best way to go to big scale with a GA product is to somehow find a way to make it dual use and secure the DoD as a customer. The problem with doing this is that the DoD becomes your m…
We've talked to many and the complexity of flying a plane is a big factor--because the knowledge that if they mess up stick and rudder means they have a high chance of losing control and crashing scares them from flying. Our system helps alleviate that fear.
I think you're solving the wrong problem.
People who are afraid of learning to aviate shouldn't be flying. Fear of things one isn't capable of doing is healthy.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#318It's awesome to bring some innovation into the airplane market.
That being said, changing the control scheme seems like a bad move.
Stick and rudder are not that complicated. Lots of aspiring pilots will not buy this thing because they are all going to have been trained on conventional controls.
I even ran into this when making my unrealistic VR space flight sim (roguestargun.com)
The first thing people complained about was the fact that I didn't setup the controls with conventional pitch and yaw axis. I watched videos of folks crashing repeatedly. I finally gave in and a bunch of 4 star reviews turned into 5 star reviews.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#319As a paraglider pilot (unpowered), I will say that the technical aspects of flying the aircraft are only a small part of what's involved in a flight - as you point out. It's a bad idea to get pilots in the air with less training. People can't safely pilot cars in two dimensions. Making the avionics easier to use and more affordable sounds like the actual winning product.
The way we see it isn't less training, but training focused on the most important parts of flying: decision making and risk management. Given the current track record for accidents, they almost always culminate in the pilot failing to control the airplane, whether due to directly stalling or being distracted by another issue and then stalling. By eliminating loss of control as a failure mode, pilots can spend more of…
> they almost always culminate in the pilot failing to control the airplane
"failing to control the airplane" is a little like saying everyone dies of heart failure. Yes their heart stopped - but why!?
The real cause is somewhat earlier. Why was a normally competent pilot in a situation where they no longer adequately controlled the aircraft?
Improve avionics - great. Improve situational awareness - really helpful. Handling should be way down the list - it becomes quite intuitive very quickly.
Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane
#320It's insane the length we go as humans (in the US at least) to not invest in the easiest, most cost-effective and environmentally friendly mode of transportation: trains. Hyperloops, wider and wider highways, now personal airplanes. Anything but goddamn trains. It's mental to me. Wish the best to the startup, after all they are filling a void someone else would, but still, not happy with the direction transport is go…
Trains are for freight, and they are exceedingly good at it.