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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#311

Post by dotancohen »

Zambyte wrote: post #310
dotancohen wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagnosis is currently extremely subjective. I believe that GP is suggesting that robotic diagnosis will be more objective and determinant. Ostensibly, because financial considerations will not be part of the input to the diagnosis routine. That said, financial considerations will probably still be a big part of the treatment routine.

> Ostensibly, because financial considerations will not be part of the input to the diagnosis routine. Devices that overreport are likely to be more popular and more common than devices that underreport. That is in part due to the financial incentives associated with diagnosing.

Excellent counterpoint, thank you. I hate to admit to being cynical enough to be convinced.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#312

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

dotancohen wrote: post #309
Zambyte wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using robots does not change any financial incentives. This is true for operations as well as diagnosis.

Diagnosis is currently extremely subjective. I believe that GP is suggesting that robotic diagnosis will be more objective and determinant. Ostensibly, because financial considerations will not be part of the input to the diagnosis routine. That said, financial considerations will probably still be a big part of the treatment routine.

I'd like to see it change the way dental insurance works, so that e.g. an AI diagnosis will legally be fully covered by the insurance, and anything that can't be verified through that would be considered an elective procedure. In the US dental insurance works basically opposite of health insurance - they only cover the basic checkups and you have to pay for any real medical needs. It's like if car insurance only covered oil changes and tire rotations but not accidents

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#313

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

Zambyte wrote: post #310
dotancohen wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagnosis is currently extremely subjective. I believe that GP is suggesting that robotic diagnosis will be more objective and determinant. Ostensibly, because financial considerations will not be part of the input to the diagnosis routine. That said, financial considerations will probably still be a big part of the treatment routine.

> Ostensibly, because financial considerations will not be part of the input to the diagnosis routine. Devices that overreport are likely to be more popular and more common than devices that underreport. That is in part due to the financial incentives associated with diagnosing.

> Devices that overreport are likely to be more popular and more common than devices that underreport.

I think you're on to something. I bet Henry Schein execs/shareholders haven't felt this much energy since patients first saw their dental issues on 36 inch TVs.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#314

Post by ProllyInfamous »

whimsicalism wrote: post #100
eppp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some doctors* The front line primary care doctors and nurse practitioners dont make as much as IT people quite often.

Lets not lump in nurse practitioners. I'm absolutely in favor of giving more responsibilities to NPs and paying them more than they currently are. Data on doctor salaries is very difficult to come by publicly, however H1B salaries indicate the average pay for H1B PCPs is $200k [0]. These are the lowest paid physicians. If you look at the data, many many physicians are making much more than that - with many specialiti…

My local Southern US county pays it's first-year PCP's $120,000, is a MCOL-area.

Of course, there is a typical shortage of doctors prying for this coveted physicianhood /s

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#315

Post by ben_w »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #204
ben_w wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have good news: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=electric+toothbrush ;)

I use one twice daily, but why do I still have to go to the dentist for cleaning? Wouldn't it be better to get a dentist-grade cleaning every day in the the same amount of time?

I keep hearing that dentist-grade cleaning is a not-strictly-necessary way for dentists to make money now that their core service has been 95% resolved by fluoride in water and toothpaste.

Outside my skillset to comment on that claim, but I do keep hearing it.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#316

Post by taneq »

elif wrote: post #285

I'm way more interest robotic diagnosis than robotic treatment. It's so hard to trust dentists have your interest above their financial interest

If the robot's decision-making process is transparent then 100% agreed. I just know, however, that (at least as long as state-of-the-art 'AI' consists of huge models trained on big data) the advice given by any free-on-the-internet bot will have built-in biases towards paid recommendations and similarly insidious things.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#317

Post by SkyPuncher »

coryrc wrote: post #271
SkyPuncher wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physician salaries are less than 10% the cost of healthcare. You could eliminate their salary entirely and it'd have no meaningful difference on the cost of healthcare. There is _absolutely_ an artificial supply limitation, but that's increasingly being worked around by the use of PA and NP providers. Doctors essentially become managers for PA and NPs. My wife is a physician. Actual, scientific diagnosis is a ridicul…

She makes so much money per minute, why does she not pay for a note taker to be by her side all day taking notes, allowing her to see more patients? That's sort-of what a NP is, but without the doctor in the room and only if she were reviewing their notes after. (I know some doctors who this is a sensitive subject so I haven't asked them yet).

Notes are kind of a poor term for what these documents actually are. To the lay person, notes are what you take during a meeting or lecture. A sort a annotation of what happened. Notes in medicine are essentially a treatment plan that includes justification and context for that treatment plan. It's essentially the physician's thinking on how they're treating a patient.

A lot of patient care centered specialties (as opposed to surgery or technical specialties, like radiology) are seeing a shift towards NP and PAs. The physician will be legally responsible for the actions of one or more NPs. They'll review their work and ensure their plans are correct.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#318

Post by pier25 »

rurban wrote: post #12

Dental repair is really nothing. Automatic welders are very common e.g. I've worked on automatic brain surgery robots, which really needs to be automatic. because 3d, tricky, and the doctor outside sees much less than the tiny sensors inside. but you can interfere and even invite remote specialists on remote duty to observe or handle the pedals.

How do remote operators account for latency?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#319

Post by kotaKat »

DigiEggz wrote: post #240
tssge wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a dropshipping site for AliExpress products shipping from China. You'll save money if you buy the product straight from AliExpress without a middleman in between. However as you said, the toothbrush doesn't actually work.

Is there a general way to tell if a site is (likely) a dropshipping site?

Alibaba has a "search by image" feature. It has been the BEST weapon to catch dropshipping.

As a bonus, if it's on Alibaba, you can either A: order a sample direct cheap or B: find the product on Aliexpress and order that way for cheap, too. I love catching scams and flipping the tables to buy it myself at their own price if I think it's nifty.

I built a homemade hot tub system around one of those "ice plunge" bath tubs that seem to be a thing going around these days. They're a rigid inflatable tub, but anyone selling them alongside a chiller sells the tub alone for $500-1000. I found the direct source (Shenzhen Gateo Sports - https://gateo.en.alibaba.com/) and bought one for $200 direct from the factory and love my unbranded tub. ;)

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#320

Post by SkyPuncher »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #257
SkyPuncher wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physician salaries are less than 10% the cost of healthcare. You could eliminate their salary entirely and it'd have no meaningful difference on the cost of healthcare. There is _absolutely_ an artificial supply limitation, but that's increasingly being worked around by the use of PA and NP providers. Doctors essentially become managers for PA and NPs. My wife is a physician. Actual, scientific diagnosis is a ridicul…

Where is the other 90% spent?

This is a newer report that now has physician services pegged at 14.5% of cost: https://www.ama-assn.org/about/research/trends-health-care-s....

That is higher than the 8% the NYTimes quoted in this 2021 article (which I was basing my argument on): https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-09-14/dont-blame-...

That AMA-ASSN article has a nice pie chart breaking down the high level categories of total health care spending. Though, this isn't particularly useful for understanding why your individual healthcare might cost so much. This article is looking at nation-state level trends, including things like public health activities and nursing home costs.

Labor does make up a massive part of healthcare costs (I've seen it quoted as much as 60%), but that includes every person in the healthcare field. Physicians, nurses, techs, administrators, billing, construction/maintenance staff, security, etc, etc, etc,

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