Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Notes on Tajikistan

mattlakeman.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 412 posts

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#311

Post by rdlw »

sumedh wrote: post #259
geoka9 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the most beautiful mountain scenery I've ever seen and very hospitable people. A very nice place to visit. Not a very good place to live though unless you're so rich that you don't have to rely on the local infrastructure and services for survival and quality of life.

> Some of the most beautiful mountain scenery I've ever seen based on the pics in the article, it seems pretty similar to Himalayan regions of Pakistan, India, Nepal. What was so special?

I think most people find the Himalayas pretty special

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#312

Post by thriftwy »

mopsi wrote: post #257
thriftwy wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before early XX century most of the globe was comprised of countries who looked like that. > the main language used in administrative affairs was German > to portray Georgia as a mere "province of Russian Empire" is ridiculous given that they are so distinct that you cannot even read what they write Please don't tell me that many Englishmen could read Devangari script or that many Frenchmen could read (pre-Latin) Vie…

> The subtexts that you are pinning on me are your own invention, I just say about unfaithful representation of history in the press. What is the purpose of having to mention that Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were in Russian Empire in the context of their invasion and occupation in the 1940s if not an attempt to give legitimacy to the invasions? It's far more important to stress that the people on the Baltic coast a…

> people on the Baltic coast are not Russians, have nothing in common with them, nor have never wanted to be close with them

That wording already shows an unexpected amount of agitation that would prompt further inquires.

> have been driven away from their land like Native Americans and decimated with hostile policies that have resulted in their rapid decline

That's mostly an unfaithful description of what's been happening, no. It also runs counter to the previous "have nothing in common with them, nor have never wanted to be close with them". If you really didn't want to be close to Russians you would get out of our hair for a chance.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#313

Post by hagbard_c »

ogurechny wrote: post #303
hagbard_c wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does 'my interpretation' mean in this context? Where do I specifically interpret islamic scripture? If you don't talk about a problem it can not be solved. If the problem is not solved it grows. If the problem grows it will cause more problems. When do you think the time comes to talk about this problem? https://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violen... Many Western politicians and intellectuals sa…

You do interpret it as a real guide for large groups of people. I actually think that your criticism is too surface level, and we need to go deeper. I propose that most of those people have very little of any kind of faith — no more than your average football team fans have. Moreover, they are not even substantially different from supposedly secular western football fans. You, on the other hand, try to deduce what pe…

Again, where do I interpret scripture? I am referring to the fact that others interpret islamic scripture in ways that fit their purposes. I have also cited several well-known islamic reformers who claim the same. Your football-comparison is irrelevant and off the mark since it does not matter how much faith people have, what matters is how they act. Faith is personal, actions based on faith can affect others. Violent actions based on faith - no matter how shallow - have a detrimental affect on society as a whole.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#314

Post by rdlw »

RecycledEle wrote: post #197

> all rolled into one beautiful, weird, dysfunctional country, and I couldn’t get enough of it. I do not see dysfunctional countries as beautiful. I prefer well functioning countries where things get done and people understand each other. I guess the author likes to see people suffer?

You can't see beauty in a country that isn't perfect? I know plenty of people who have some flaw they would probably be better off without, but I don't say "I don't see imperfect people as beautiful, and if you do it means you like to see them suffer."

Why do you jump to calling the author sadistic for finding the positive in a complicated situation?

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#315

Post by aprilthird2021 »

hagbard_c wrote: post #266
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islam isn't really like that. There are only 4 schools (not 1000 different churches) and they mostly disagree about minor things. There's pretty broad consensus about the fact that the end times will be preceded by a huge drop in religiosity and rise in sinfulness. Here's just one example: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/78329/signs-of-the-day-of-ju... And here's the source it's from: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:80 It…

In what way is this related to the fact that islamic scripture is open to interpretation due to the absence of a 'central authority' or 'leading interpretation' which denounces or abrogates the violent passages in scripture? Islamic eschatology is often used as a source by those who are intent on leading their adherents to violence: https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:1820 : The Messenger of Allah said, "The Last Hour…

> islamic scripture is open to interpretation due to the absence of a 'central authority' or 'leading interpretation'

It's not though. There isn't "interpretation" of the hadiths you posted. They are just true. Btw, what's happening in Israel right now can easily be seen as a manifestation of those scriptures. And it didn't start because people wanted to fulfill prophecies. It started because you have a stateless group of 2 million people with no say in the government that controls their every move.

This also has pretty much 0 to do with our original comment thread

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#316

Post by aprilthird2021 »

slt2021 wrote: post #299
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you replying to the wrong comment? I asked for one example where an open political system led to radical Islamists cementing power

Afghanistan was relatively open during US and USSR occupations, still radical islamists prevailed. Iran during Shah times was relatively open politically, although it was monarchy. Egypt before the brotherhood took over. Turkey was relatively sectarian, but with Erdogan it became more and more islamist. Iraq after occupation was relatively open, yet ISIS ideology took off

The USSR was brutal autocracy. Us military occupation was also brutal and not free.

Iran was a brutal autocracy.

Egypt was a brutal military dictatorship.

Turkey is a great example, tbh. The level of radicals and terrorism there is far less than anything else we've described because it has open democracy. If anything, the big terrorists in Turkey are separatists which every nation, even European ones, has to fight.

Iraq after brutal military occupation? All of what you're talking about about are scenarios where brutal authoritarianism led to extremists gaining popularity because they are an excellent alternative to brutal one-man repression of an entire people.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#317

Post by aprilthird2021 »

admissionsguy wrote: post #231
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies). No it doesn't. Provide one example where this has happened?

Egypt before the latest coup?

Egypt had been a brutal autocracy for years which led to the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and just when democracy finally peaked its head out, bam, back to brutal military dictatorship.

You may not believe in democracy, but I do. Democracies lead to progress in nations and balance in political systems around the world. Closed political systems lead to the rise of revolutionaries and in the Muslim world those are Islamic and often extreme

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#318

Post by aprilthird2021 »

golergka wrote: post #297
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza/Israel is not an open political system. They are subjects and born in a state that doesn't grant them the rights of people equally subject to and born in the same area. My entire point was that closed political systems embolden radicals, Gaza makes that point extremely well. When you have zero chance of having a say in the government that controls all your borders, any and all food allowed into your area, any an…

Citizens of Gaza are not citizens neither subjects of Israel. Israeli citizens vote on Israeli elections, PA citizens vote on PA elections and Gaza citizens vote on Gaza elections. Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and doesn't control all the borders either — that's Israel and Egypt. And both of these countries decided to close borders and install maritime blockade only after Hamas stated indiscriminate attacks against civi…

They are not citizens (Israel considers them stateless) but they are subject to Israeli law and rule at every turn. Nothing can go into or out of Gaza, not even food, not even collected rainwater, without Israeli permission.

The point is, it's as closed a political system as it gets. No matter what the polity does, their situation cannot change because they have no rights in the government that controls their lives (Israel)

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#319

Post by aprilthird2021 »

adhamsalama wrote: post #183
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a lot of Westerners don't realize is this kind of sentiment is exactly why Islamist parties and political groups are so popular in the Muslim world. If your only choice is extremely socially conservative, democratic groups like the Muslim Brotherhood (or worse) or a literal Kim Jong Un alike, then it's pretty obvious who you'd choose. This is resorting to extremism and terrorism, it's just conducted by the army…

Democratic groups like the Muslim Brotherhood? Care to explain that one more?

They are the only party to have ever fielded a democratically elected leader in all of their home country of Egypt.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#320

Post by ogurechny »

hagbard_c wrote: post #313
ogurechny wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do interpret it as a real guide for large groups of people. I actually think that your criticism is too surface level, and we need to go deeper. I propose that most of those people have very little of any kind of faith — no more than your average football team fans have. Moreover, they are not even substantially different from supposedly secular western football fans. You, on the other hand, try to deduce what pe…

Again, where do I interpret scripture? I am referring to the fact that others interpret islamic scripture in ways that fit their purposes. I have also cited several well-known islamic reformers who claim the same. Your football-comparison is irrelevant and off the mark since it does not matter how much faith people have, what matters is how they act. Faith is personal, actions based on faith can affect others. Violen…

You think there is a direct link between some words on paper and how people act. This assumes that you understand what these words say. That also assumes that people are simple robots with simple input and output.

By the way, both scriptures and laws are just words on paper.

I propose that you actually believe in the power of some sacred book too much, and that “Islamic this, Islamic that” are just fans of Islam in the same manner people are fans of a football team (which sometimes gives them “authority” to riot or beat other people). They may call themselves true believers, but that's an old story.

Post reply on HN