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US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

arstechnica.com

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Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#311

Post by jackpirate »

bitwize wrote: post #233
azernik wrote: post #152

Security lesson from the article: "It turns out there is always an idiot around who doesn’t think much about the thumb drive in their hand."

Was true before thumb drives. Fun fact: President Carter once sent his suit to the dry cleaner's -- with the nuclear launch codes in the pocket.

More fun fact: nuclear launch codes meant nothing in Carter's time. There was literally a group of Admirals/Generals who were physically capable of pressing the button at any time without presidential authorization.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#312

Post by philwelch »

phaus wrote: post #290
philwelch wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of it varies from service to service. The Marine Corps was the last to develop special ops teams, under the doctrine that all Marines were capable of special operations. The smallest integrated Marine units, the MEU's, are all certified as "special operations capable", and are indeed capable of covert, small-unit action. One of the missions they're often tasked with is TRAP, "Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and P…

The reason that the Marines are considered to have developed a spec ops teams last is largely due to the military having a different definition of special operations than the average person. To an average person like me (and I was a Soldier) when I think of special forces, I consider pretty much anyone who went to one of the military's most elite schools. The SEALS, Force Recon, and the actual U.S. Army Special Force…

The problem with SOCOM, and why Force Recon didn't fit in, is that Force Recon was always meant to perform a specific mission within the context of a Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF), not be used as a black-ops team on a detached mission. Which is incidentally why the Marines still have them, even though the Marines have teams assigned to SOCOM now.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#313

Post by woodall »

gavinlynch wrote: post #169
guelo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very cynical point of view that was the cause of much death before the creation of the UN. There used to be this ideal about what the UN meant including respect for international laws. How can we credibly complain that Iran is violating a UN resolution at this point? If we're moving back to a might-makes-right world we are doomed to a future of new world wars and untold carnage.

"If we're moving back to a might-makes-right world we are doomed to a future of new world wars and untold carnage." In my view, we never left a "might-makes-right world". It's the underlying reality of human existence and human nature. And yes, that absolutely does mean that our future holds new world wars and untold carnage. Is it a particularly happy thought? No, not really. But it's part of the human experience.

Philosophicalness: -5 Craziness: 982374982374082348912823

You guys need to get off the internet and into the real world a bit more.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#314

Post by barry-cotter »

mvzink wrote: post #307
InclinedPlane wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it disturbing that so many people are so very willing to ignore or defend the atrocities of communism in the 20th century. Just after the end of WWII the Soviets adopted a "plunder" policy with regard to occupied Eastern European countries. Forcing them to produce huge quantities of raw materials and industrial goods to be used within the USSR, extracting as much wealth from the beleaguered post-war economies…

I feel like I harp on this a lot, but a quick reminder: that's not communism. I know there isn't really a better name for the ideology/policies of the USSR (and other "communist" states) but I think it's worth (repeatedly) pointing out the huge and longstanding misnomer, since they have very few and very tenuous and/or butchered connections to any philosophy of Marx. These are not atrocities of an ideology, however m…

Which country whose ideology was officially Communist is or was least bad for its people?

I'm not a scholar of ex(communist) states but I'm thinking either Cuba or the former Yugoslavia. I am not aware of any attempt to bring communism into practice that could be called a humanitarian success. The other totalitarianism isn't exactly great either but it at least seems less murderous internally.

If I believed all politicians were power hungry amoral bastards then this wouldn't be that strong of evidence against communism but depressingly enough they're mostly sincere[0]. Communism appears to be a wonderful system for social insects. Humans, not so much.

[0] It would be extremely surprising if they didn't show the same over representation of psychopaths as corporate executives but that still leaves 24 out of 25 politicians as moral creatures.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#315

Post by berntb »

ucee054 wrote: post #309
berntb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>somehow the US government is finding it even easier to erode civil liberties now than it ever did during the Cold War. Iran is probably the worst country on the planet when it comes to supporting terrorism. Consider that democracies in general seems to go crazy when they have active terrorism problems and throw out human rights and the law book. E.g. Germany, USA, Israel, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, etc. (The only…

I grew up in London when the IRA were leaving bombs in the trains stations, we didn't have this "throw out rights and laws" nonsense. And Norway didn't go nuts over the Breivik attack either. Oh, and are you aware that Israel backed Jundullah, which is a Pakistani AlQaeda? Command of the facts helps avoid embarrassment.

Hello again!

Do you still believe in Jewish conspiracies controlling media?

Or that T-shirts of some individuals prove something about a heterogeneous country -- and are as bad as official policies in another state?!

Ah wait, you refused to touch that "logic" of yours in comment after comment...

Breivik was an individual crazy/nazi/xxx. There are hardly realistic threats for more attacks in Norway. I argued about fear of terror, not mourning after one attack.

(Edit: It is really fun that you condemn Israel for working with unpleasant groups where they have common interests -- all countries with physical threats do similar things -- but previously refused to criticise similar groups.)

And so on, sorry but I can't take you seriously.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#316

Post by mitjak »

cdi wrote: post #305
mitjak wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explainable action? I'm lost for words. Also I'm Russian.

Very explainable, if you replace now common mindset of "well being of people, their liberty to participate in market" with mindset of "world revolution, opposition to capitalist, imperialistic powers". Priority of restoration of SU first, as a power house of world revolution, becomes explainable. There was a Cold War going on, you know. Suppression of democratic reforms too - "if people don't want our brand of hierar…

I appreciate and at least partially agree with your perspective, regardless of the pointless name calling.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#317

Post by refurb »

ucee054 wrote: post #309
berntb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>somehow the US government is finding it even easier to erode civil liberties now than it ever did during the Cold War. Iran is probably the worst country on the planet when it comes to supporting terrorism. Consider that democracies in general seems to go crazy when they have active terrorism problems and throw out human rights and the law book. E.g. Germany, USA, Israel, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, etc. (The only…

I grew up in London when the IRA were leaving bombs in the trains stations, we didn't have this "throw out rights and laws" nonsense. And Norway didn't go nuts over the Breivik attack either. Oh, and are you aware that Israel backed Jundullah, which is a Pakistani AlQaeda? Command of the facts helps avoid embarrassment.

I'm a little confused.

The UK gov't instituted a number of very harsh laws that severely curtailed the rights of UK citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Terrorism_Acts

"This part allowed for the arrest of individuals without a warrant and on reasonable suspicion that they were guilty of an offence under the Act or otherwise "concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism""

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#318

Post by berntb »

refurb wrote: post #317
ucee054 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in London when the IRA were leaving bombs in the trains stations, we didn't have this "throw out rights and laws" nonsense. And Norway didn't go nuts over the Breivik attack either. Oh, and are you aware that Israel backed Jundullah, which is a Pakistani AlQaeda? Command of the facts helps avoid embarrassment.

I'm a little confused. The UK gov't instituted a number of very harsh laws that severely curtailed the rights of UK citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Terrorism_Acts "This part allowed for the arrest of individuals without a warrant and on reasonable suspicion that they were guilty of an offence under the Act or otherwise "concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism"…

(I don't think you should have too high expectations of facts and logic from ucee054, at least re politics. :-) )

Thanks for the link, I didn't know the name of the law. Also, there were some ... cough ... controversial interrogation methods in the 70s, until there was too much human rights criticism.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on the UK and IRA, but believe/assume part of the inspiration for the wonderful T Gilliam movie "Brazil" came from this.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#319

Post by freshhawk »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #259
freshhawk wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To explicitly target civilians is serious because it breaks the laws of war, etc. Democracies generally don't do that. Democracies generally try not to publicize doing that. Unless it's done with drones apparently, then you brag about it.

Link to a democracy bragging about intentionally targeting a civilian?

That was a reference to the fact that the election related PR is focused around Obama being tough, having a kill list that he oversees and the successful drone strikes against "militants".

Because the definition of militant explicitly includes civilians in the area surrounding the targets and this was recently highly publicized I tied the two together in a flippant comment.

But I suspect you knew that already and now want to argue about the US use of drones. I'll save you the time, it's terrorism dressed in Orwellian doublespeak and it's pointless to have internet arguments about it.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#320

Post by nightpool »

mvzink wrote: post #307
InclinedPlane wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it disturbing that so many people are so very willing to ignore or defend the atrocities of communism in the 20th century. Just after the end of WWII the Soviets adopted a "plunder" policy with regard to occupied Eastern European countries. Forcing them to produce huge quantities of raw materials and industrial goods to be used within the USSR, extracting as much wealth from the beleaguered post-war economies…

I feel like I harp on this a lot, but a quick reminder: that's not communism. I know there isn't really a better name for the ideology/policies of the USSR (and other "communist" states) but I think it's worth (repeatedly) pointing out the huge and longstanding misnomer, since they have very few and very tenuous and/or butchered connections to any philosophy of Marx. These are not atrocities of an ideology, however m…

I'm guessing that Stalinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism) is the term your looking for.
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