Live data from Hacker News

Dear Europe, please wake up

klinger.io

311–320 of 323 posts

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, you'll end up paying a total of 50.3% tax rate if you make over $1 million. Federal 37%, state 13.3% adds up to 50.3%

If you earn 300k a year, what's the average tax rate you're paying? (Marginal tax rate isn't a helpful number for that)

For someone who's single/unmarried, $300k is under the peak brackets, which is above $578,125 for federal, and above $312,686 for California, so you'd only pay the progressive rate of 35% Federal and 9.3% California for a total of 44.3%. My math says you'd pay $101,790.74 in total, which makes for an effective tax rate of 33.93% on someone single making $300k/yr.

(Assuming I did my spreadsheet right. I'm not a CPA, and definitely not yours!)

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#312
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stereotypes aren't necessarily true. There's for example a stereotype about Mexicans being lazy, but anyone who's actually taken the time to look at the statistics - and gotten to know any number of Mexicans, for that matter - knows that to be a complete fabrication.

The funniest thing about that stereotype is how can they simultaneously be lazy, yet also be taking all our jobs? Stereotypes are just stupid and lazy thinking.

Schrödingers migrant: taking our job while being too lazy to work. Very common perception over here, too.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#313

So many things here. Lets talk pay, US tech workers, lets just say Sr SWE and up, and lets look at SF as the author uses this as a focal point. Salary is roughly $300-400k a year(in SF FANGish company), in Europe or England its about half of that, and maybe even less. I know as I have family I married into that points out this fact, the best workers all go over to the US and make large salaries over there at US tech…

> Lastly lets talk about employees, you hire someone and they don't work. In Europe you cannot just term them and give them a severance package of a few weeks.

This is not true! If a newly hired employee does not work, then you can fire them immediately.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#314

So many things here. Lets talk pay, US tech workers, lets just say Sr SWE and up, and lets look at SF as the author uses this as a focal point. Salary is roughly $300-400k a year(in SF FANGish company), in Europe or England its about half of that, and maybe even less. I know as I have family I married into that points out this fact, the best workers all go over to the US and make large salaries over there at US tech…

Those are some insane generalizations about a population that is 1.5x larger than that of the US. Hard-working people are everywhere, and there are plenty of top-talent people working in the EU and Asia. Also it's worth mentioning that not all top-talent workers want to move to the US, and there are plenty of reasons for that.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#315

So many things here. Lets talk pay, US tech workers, lets just say Sr SWE and up, and lets look at SF as the author uses this as a focal point. Salary is roughly $300-400k a year(in SF FANGish company), in Europe or England its about half of that, and maybe even less. I know as I have family I married into that points out this fact, the best workers all go over to the US and make large salaries over there at US tech…

salary doesn't mean much in the vacuum without considering costs of living ... my cost of living in Czechia is a fraction to life in US ... with $300 a month, I can cover my social insurance, health insurance and taxes, and then I am free ... and whatever I need from health care has no additional costs, from a full bag of meds every month, through psychotherapy to big a and serious operations, no other income taxes either, and I will get a small pension too when I retire

as for firing employees, many tech workers are not employees but contractors, conditions about the job are set by the company in the begining ... also what I noticed that US workers can and will quit on the spot if they decided so ... the othe side of the coin with EU employees is that they won't and can't do this ... the employer can rely on this ... if they are given notice and fired, they will responsibly continue working for the law mandated X months, so that the employer has time to replace them, and they will train their replacement and do proper handover ... at least from what i've seen, americans in tech once they learn they are being let go, they drop everything and are gone

the EU way isn't that one-sided towards the employee, it has implications both ways ... and if you don't like the protections and stability, just get the person on contract instead, which many smaller startups do, as they don't want to be locked into their decisions too much

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does Czechia, Romania, Poland, and (before 2022) Russia punch above their weight in entrepreneurship? Or Switzerland and the UK?

> Then why does Czechia, Romania, Poland And yet nobody would move there to find a job, not even from Italy, Greece or Portugal. Their salaries are simply too low and the ROI in terms of quality of life it's not remotely comparable. There's over one million Romanians in Italy, making them the largest foreign community in Italy.

I know some people who permanently move from Spain or Italy to Czechia. In their own words, there was no work in their home country. They tried super hard to get a job at home, but came up with nothing. Here they have some sort of non-technical office jobs in tech companies and are quite happy with the pay.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Italy has a population of ~58m but an ICT service population of ~500k [0]. > Romania has a population of 19m but an ICT service population of ~200k [1] Yeah and in Italy around ~9% of the population was not born in Italy (mostly coming from non EU/ poorer countries with no tech skill whatsoever, not a judgement, just a fact) while in Romania is basically 0% So, as I've said, ICT workers are pretty much 10% everywhe…

>Yeah and in Italy around ~9% of the population was not born in Italy (mostly coming from non EU/ poorer countries with no tech skill whatsoever, not a judgement, just a fact) while in Romania is basically 0% 9% is low in three ways: lower than most western european countries, lower than many countries with a thriving IT industry and, finally, low enough that it wouldn't change the overall numbers too much

> 9% is low in three ways: lower than most western european countries, lower than many countries with a thriving IT

Same question as before:

where are you taking your stats?

Foreign born population in Italy is around 10% of the total, it is similar to similar countries in a similar position: France, Greece, Portugal.

We also do not count naturalized foreign-born and children born here, while other countries do.

But you're still missing the point: those millions of foreign born living in Italy have little to none tech literacy.

I have used the 9% measure because I assume that the remaining 1% are people who have some tech literacy.

In Germany there are (officially) 700 thousand Italians, unofficially it's 2 times that. They count in Germany as foreign born, but are highly educated immigrants, while immigration in Italy, given its geographical position, is mostly lower/no education immigrants.

> lower than many countries with a thriving IT industry

replace many with some. For example in UK officially 12.7% by the latest census data of 2011 of the population is foreign born, except they often times count as foreign born people born outside of the UK and their direct descendants. Which mostly is people from the former colonies. But also 6% of the total (or 50% of that 12% are people from the EU)

The foreign-born will include some people who are born abroad to UK citizen parents. However, it is usually still the preferred definition when using data on the migrant population, and especially change in the population over time.

Moreover, data on non-UK citizens also include many UK-born children of migrants who have themselves never migrated.

At the time of the UK census conducted in April 2001, 8.3 per cent of the country's population were foreign-born. This was substantially less than that of major immigration countries such as Australia (23 per cent), Canada (19.3 per cent) and the USA (12.3 per cent)

Wasn't UK already a tech hub in 2001? Am I wrong?

Last but not least, according to Statista Romanian annual average salary is around 20,000 (19,139) Euro while in Italy is 31,500 Euro.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#318
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 37% top US tax rate That's not true either. In California, you will also pay state income tax, most likely at 9.3% marginal rate - but possibly not too different in actual rate because the California thresholds are low. To continue the comparison, you'll need to consider which part of health insurance is or is not included (none in the US.) Etc. In the end, the marginal tax rates are pretty close. Meaning, shocking…

In California, you'll end up paying a total of 50.3% tax rate if you make over $1 million. Federal 37%, state 13.3% adds up to 50.3%

What user defrost said. Also $1M is quite hard to do, that would indicate a salary(single not married in my example) of a principle engineer at FANG* or Sr. Director and there are very few of those around. Or you could be a Staff engineer and join a company with a parabolic stock price like NVDA or something similar.

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#319
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is also equally common there to have an argument about that, just like on HN ;-) i was referring to this btw: America" (which btw is a continent, not a country)

アメリカ (the romanization of America) is also how the country is referred to in Japanese. There are many languages (including English) that use America as the common name for the United States of America. A notable exception, and where much of the disagreement comes from is Spanish. I generally try to follow the convention of the language I'm speaking.

[deleted]

Re: Dear Europe, please wake up

#320
I know too little to have strong opinions about this. I worked for a few years in Canada, and for the rest of my career in Germany.

In my opinion, bureaucracy is a growing problem, at least in Germany. There is just so much compliance work involved in running a business, and it keeps getting worse. As a sole proprietor running a very simple business, my first year felt like I was just working on compliance, and my actual business was just a side quest.

I wish there was more effort at every layer to make bureaucracy easier to handle. We should consider the bureaucratic experience the same way we consider developer experience, because it affects adoption the same way. We need good architecture, good documentation, good utilities. It makes a big difference.

Post reply on HN